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Many Japanese children refuse to go to school

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Re: Many Japanese children refuse to go to school

#51
post #5

If you're a kid and do the cost/benefit analysis, going to school looks like a dumb decision and a huge opportunity cost for time that could otherwise be used for things with known reward (playing). Bullying, exams, homework, sleep disruption, etc is all cost. What does the student believe they get they out of it? The pathway from school to job is nebulous to young kids who don't yet need money to live. As kids get o…

Your post accurately describes how I felt from grades 4 through 12. The only thing that got me through it was knowing that the better I did, the farther away I could get from it.

Even then, I spent my final year gaming the system to earn the highest grades from the least amount of work.

Re: Many Japanese children refuse to go to school

#52
post #5

If you're a kid and do the cost/benefit analysis, going to school looks like a dumb decision and a huge opportunity cost for time that could otherwise be used for things with known reward (playing). Bullying, exams, homework, sleep disruption, etc is all cost. What does the student believe they get they out of it? The pathway from school to job is nebulous to young kids who don't yet need money to live. As kids get o…

+1. Even as an adult, If I could do it all again, I would avoid school as much as possible. School is an upgrade from child labor, but I now have enough experience to know it's a downgrade from what I can learn of my own. Not saying every kid should do the same of course. But personnally, after being in 11 schools, including fancy private ones and ones in poor neighbourhoods, I found extremly few decent teachers, a v…

Couldn't have said it better myself

Something you didn't mention though which always drove me crazy with school was how often it robbed me of the discovery and exploration portions of the learning experience.

Those portions form the substance of life, for me anyways, and every time a teacher would explain things I was on the cusp of understanding on my own anyways it drove me absolutely nuts. Like someone telling you the spoilers to a book or movie you're deeply engaged in.

And when I had already understood concepts the curriculum hadn't yet reached, and had my own perfectly correct and effective methods which happened to differ from whatever they taught when we arrived there, I'd be in trouble for using my familiar and preferred methods. Despite the fact that I actually had a deeper understanding of the problem than someone only having memorized whatever method was being taught, since it was something I had actually encountered in life and figured out independently. This happened so many times in math classes, my teachers started accusing me of cheating on tests because I would ace them while not doing any of the homework. Later on after switching to a non-religious school it became even worse, because we were rehashing stuff all over again like it was a year behind my previous school.

If I had to do it all again I'd have fought harder against school and religion from an earlier age, it was all an awful tar-pit that burned so much time and caused a lot of suffering.

Re: Many Japanese children refuse to go to school

#53
post #5

If you're a kid and do the cost/benefit analysis, going to school looks like a dumb decision and a huge opportunity cost for time that could otherwise be used for things with known reward (playing). Bullying, exams, homework, sleep disruption, etc is all cost. What does the student believe they get they out of it? The pathway from school to job is nebulous to young kids who don't yet need money to live. As kids get o…

+1. Even as an adult, If I could do it all again, I would avoid school as much as possible. School is an upgrade from child labor, but I now have enough experience to know it's a downgrade from what I can learn of my own. Not saying every kid should do the same of course. But personnally, after being in 11 schools, including fancy private ones and ones in poor neighbourhoods, I found extremly few decent teachers, a v…

I was going to write a lengthy comment to say the same, but I think you pretty much nailed it.

Re: Many Japanese children refuse to go to school

#54
post #34
post #5

If you're a kid and do the cost/benefit analysis, going to school looks like a dumb decision and a huge opportunity cost for time that could otherwise be used for things with known reward (playing). Bullying, exams, homework, sleep disruption, etc is all cost. What does the student believe they get they out of it? The pathway from school to job is nebulous to young kids who don't yet need money to live. As kids get o…

I'm a parent and I think school is a dumb decision and a huge opportunity cost. So I spend a lot of time and money to find a school environment that gives them more than I can alone. If at some point I can no longer afford it, I would homeschool.

I would love to do this for my kids, but it's just not possible due to location and cost. I'm in the UK and there are a couple of free school like establishments and that's it. And they are really expensive. For kids like me school was an utter waste of time, with such a strong drive to learn, and an independent streak a mile wide... Let's just say it was a deeply unpleasant experience. Perhaps even traumatising. My two little ones seem to be cut from the same cloth, sensitive to noise and other kinds of stimulation, independent. It's a little too early to say as the oldest is only 4, but I think there might be problems ahead. Although Charlotte has her mum's competitive streak, so she might be ok. I'm worried for them, but I'm not sure there is much I can do but watch them closely and try to catch any problems really early.

Re: Many Japanese children refuse to go to school

#55
post #51
post #5

If you're a kid and do the cost/benefit analysis, going to school looks like a dumb decision and a huge opportunity cost for time that could otherwise be used for things with known reward (playing). Bullying, exams, homework, sleep disruption, etc is all cost. What does the student believe they get they out of it? The pathway from school to job is nebulous to young kids who don't yet need money to live. As kids get o…

Your post accurately describes how I felt from grades 4 through 12. The only thing that got me through it was knowing that the better I did, the farther away I could get from it. Even then, I spent my final year gaming the system to earn the highest grades from the least amount of work.

I've been out of school for over a decade and I'm still gaming the system to earn the highest for the least amount of work.

Pretty excited for retirement tho...

Re: Many Japanese children refuse to go to school

#56
post #41
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> after they are successful in life... where the definition of success is based on the parent's perception of what success means. The child's opinions nor desires don't come into the picture.

Ignoring the extremes, why would a child's opinion be taken into account in a situation like this? What experiences does the child have that makes their opinion valid in parenting issues?

Because respecting a child's autonomy leads to emotionally healthy, happier and more successful adults?

Re: Many Japanese children refuse to go to school

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "But when am I actually going to use this?" I was as guilty of this as anyone in my school days, and yet not a single teacher ever pointed out to me that I was at school to learn how to learn , so in a sense the subject matter was irrelevant.

That means school was irrelevant. The evidence for transfer of learning is weak to the point of non-existence[1]. Even if transfer learning did exist that’s not the reason for school that any substantial portion of people believe in. If we look at the institutional history of school teaching nationalism is a much easier sell as to the purpose of school. [1] “Besides just plain forgetting, people commonly fail to mars…

I don't think we are talking about transfer. My mam had the concept of exercising zitsfleish, the ability to sit down and concentrate at a mentally taxing boring task for uncertain reward.

This is a skill I use to this day, especially when debugging, and when I have a hard day, I remind myself that if I was able to solve 100 linear equations over christmass when I was 10, I should be able to find this bug!

Re: Many Japanese children refuse to go to school

#58
My 9 years old son has refused to go to his public Tokyo school for two years now. I am from a German speaking country and the idea of a child not to attend school is absolutely unimaginable. His mother (Japanese) has always insisted that this is not uncommon in Japan. His head-teachers also insured me that this is not uncommon. As I am not living in Japan I had to accept these circumstances.

I was somewhat calmed by the knowledge that the school provided counseling and other dedicated programs for the development of my son. I thought the counselors cared quite well for him, when I was allowed to witness sessions.

When I took my son to my home country for two months he transformed. He was quiet and reclusive in the first weeks, but turned into a much more playful, outspoken and socially interested young boy towards the end.

Since then I discovered that his mother has been hiding a worsening mental illness from me. This affected my son greatly, he felt the need to care for her. He even has hundreds of YouTube videos in his history explaining children of what to do when your parent is mentally unwell — discovering this really broke my heart.

Per my request, my son was taken into the custody of the Japanese child protective services 3 months ago and I am currently in Japan fighting for sole custody of him.

My tale is a single data point, but I have come to believe the many stories of mental problems of Japanese children and young adults are not solely attributable to the pressures of society. I rather believe that mental health problems being a taboo in Japan may be the root of many problems.

Per my understanding it is incredibly shameful to admit to mental health problems and doing so brings serious ramifications.

So, if my hypothesis is correct, parents in Japan are more likely to go untreated and their children suffer the effects, perpetuating the cycle.

In our case, the school—very subtly—tried to inform me about their worries concerning his mothers mental health problems without ever speaking about it directly. They only spoke freely when a court appointed expert demanded them to.

My son has an entire network of child psychologist, youth counselors and also me waiting for him in my home country, who will all encourage him to treat mental health like physical health; Everyone gets sick sometimes. For the body you take antibiotics, for the mind you take time of to become aware of what is happening. You seek professional help in both situations and being depressed, is a shameful as getting the flu, not at all.

Re: Many Japanese children refuse to go to school

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1. Even as an adult, If I could do it all again, I would avoid school as much as possible. School is an upgrade from child labor, but I now have enough experience to know it's a downgrade from what I can learn of my own. Not saying every kid should do the same of course. But personnally, after being in 11 schools, including fancy private ones and ones in poor neighbourhoods, I found extremly few decent teachers, a v…

Couldn't have said it better myself Something you didn't mention though which always drove me crazy with school was how often it robbed me of the discovery and exploration portions of the learning experience. Those portions form the substance of life, for me anyways, and every time a teacher would explain things I was on the cusp of understanding on my own anyways it drove me absolutely nuts. Like someone telling you…

Not that much related, but it's one of the reason I love the game "baba is you" so much.

It explains nothing.

But it is carefully crafted to drive you in the right direction so that you discover things by yourself, step by step, from early to very late levels.

It's a very difficult balance for a puzzle game, espacially for something as original as baba is you, that requires you to think a lot out of the box:

- a level completly chalenges your perception of what you are as a player

- another one forces you to put yourself in a loosing position to win

- one requires an object that does not exist at all in the entire level

It's a joy to understand those new mechanisms. But it is a hard game, so it needs a way to help you without spoiling the fun of solving it.

If you like level design like me, it's a treat, and a good example of great tutoring.

Now as a teacher, I do that as well. But mixed to traditional teaching because I teach adults, and they want to compress the learning time and be productive fast, even at the price of a more superficial understanding.

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