Zigbee is already an open standard, but some Zigbee devices don't work with others. Yet, with Z-Wave they all tend to work and there isn't that much of a price difference (between Zigbee and Z-Wave devices). The biggest problem with Zigbee is that is uses 2.4 GHZ which doesn't travel long distances or through walls very well. Z-Wave uses a lower frequency that does. (edited for clarity)
Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
51–60 of 364 posts
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#52I am curious if they will include cameras (security / door), because the characteristics of the payload are quite orthogonal to the characteristics of the payload of other smart home devices.
>because the characteristics of the payload are quite orthogonal to the characteristics of the payload of other smart home devices. how so?
A camera requires orders of magnitude more bandwidth and power than other devices that might be connected over a low-power, low-cost radio network. It needs to transmit that payload 24/7.
Currently, home automation typically uses a variety of custom protocols built on IEEE 802.15.4 (not 802.11*). It's a simple protocol that can be implemented by a cheap 8-bit microcontroller from 2 decades ago. Devices from one manufacturer may or may not communicate with those from another, and the network architecture is typically a hub with spokes - there's limited or no support for multi-router, multi-access point, or mesh networked setups.
This style of network honestly works pretty well for motion sensors, lights, outlets, temperature sensors, thermostats, etc. The master node might query a device every few seconds for a couple bytes of status, or might only send a short command when a user interacts with the device. Most smart home devices send a few bytes of data four times a day when you push "light on" and "light off" on the hub. This is great for operating for months or years on just a couple AA batteries. A camera sends a few bytes per pixel times (simplifying) 720 pixels down times 1280 pixels across times 30 frames per second times 86400 seconds per day, and can only run for an hour or two on a larger battery. That's almost 8 terabytes vs. 8 bytes.
But to use 802.15.4 networks, you need a hub, which is a barrier to entry - instead of one $20 light, you need a $15 light and a $50 hub. You likely already have an 802.11 router that could be the hub if the devices were smart enough to talk to it. And (tinfoil hat on) I think these companies would rather have their servers be the hub, rather than a device in your home they can't monitor and profit off of.
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#53Zigbee is already an open standard, but some Zigbee devices don't work with others. Yet, with Z-Wave they all tend to work and there isn't that much of a price difference (between Zigbee and Z-Wave devices). The biggest problem with Zigbee is that is uses 2.4 GHZ which doesn't travel long distances or through walls very well. Z-Wave uses a lower frequency that does. (edited for clarity)
Zigbee can use sub-GHz as well.
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm on IPV4. It's not about how many IP addresses I have available, it's that all those smart devices can pollute the list of devices connected my wifi network. I like to know what's on my wifi network, and because my memory isn't what it's used to be, I find myself having to assign names to all the smart wifi devices in my Unifi controller.
A common solution (and one HomeKit enabled routers implement) is to relegate all IoT products to their own network
Sure, but I would still want to check that network's clients as well, so I would still want to identify the devices on that network to ensure that only my devices are on it.
Either way, it's still an additional step compared to Z-wave. Other than the hub, I don't need to set up an IP network for my Z-wave devices to connect to at all.
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#55> The goal of the Connected Home over IP project is to simplify development for manufacturers... > The industry working group will take an open-source approach for the development and implementation of a new, unified connectivity protocol and increase compatibility for consumers. Curious if I as a hobbyist will benefit from this? Or if this will become a: it works perfectly, but only if all your devices connect to ou…
I really hope they recognize the need that people want to keep their data on their lan. Actually that would be required by the GDPR if they won't let me sign anything. My derived data is my own people, it does not belong to who ever collects it.
I.e. I just want a thermostat the is a big rotating button and speaks mqtt. It does not exist. If you want it to look good you end up with a Nest thermostat. Home Assistant needs to talk to the Nest online API, not to the device itself. Really annoying and unnecessary. I wish I could just pay 50$ more and get a Nest that does let me talk to it locally. Or whatever are they going to earn with my data? I'd probably pay it straight up.
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#56In the past 10 years, I haven't seen even one Zigbee device sold in retail besides IKEA remote.
Zigbee is pretty much a zombie standard now
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#57How much evil can be packed into one standard?
Rhetorical question.
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#58In the past 10 years, I haven't seen even one Zigbee device sold in retail besides IKEA remote. Zigbee is pretty much a zombie standard now
Zigbee is used all the time in smart lights, plugs, doorbells, temperature sensors and the such. It's a very popular standard.
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Openthread uses the zigbee radio. Hence zigbee being involved. On the surface this "appears" very similar. EDIT: Yes I'm aware the software layer is different, I was inferring the radios are the same.
This is incorrect. Openthread uses nothing from Zigbee, but does use 802.15.4 radios, the same as Zigbee does.
OK, let me be more specific since that is what I was inferring.
Yes the software layer is different.
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#60> The goal of the Connected Home over IP project is to simplify development for manufacturers... > The industry working group will take an open-source approach for the development and implementation of a new, unified connectivity protocol and increase compatibility for consumers. Curious if I as a hobbyist will benefit from this? Or if this will become a: it works perfectly, but only if all your devices connect to ou…
Apple's existing standard (HomeKit) is relatively 'open' - the specification is published, and several open source implementations exist. I've used the Python one to implement automation on the smart-home devices I've built myself. However, you do need to be certified to distribute a product otherwise you get a warning in the app when you add the device.
This seems like a fair compromise to me.