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Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

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Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#51

Post by nradov »

WilliamEdward wrote: post #22
ramblerman wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insensitive or not, both statements can be true at the same time. I.e. Africa is plagued by bad leadership and corruption, and the west is more than happy to take advantage of the situation.

In a lot of cases Africa's bad leadership is a direct result of the west's former colonial efforts there. Congo in particular suffered at the hands of Belgium. So this sentiment is incomplete.

Yes Belgium did horrible things in the Congo. But what's the solution now? Belgium no longer has much influence. Most of the perpetrators are dead and can no longer be held accountable.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#52

Post by afarrell »

celticmusic wrote: post #31

Then the law needs to change. It's unconscionable for this to be happening. You make the buyers of that cobalt start caring, you'll make the producers of that cobalt start caring.

Or the producers of that cobalt will just find someone else in Shenzhen to sell to.

This problem should be tackled, but it is worth thinking about likely unintended consequences of whatever power structures you set up to tackle it. I hear the Belgians have some experience ending slavery in parts of Africa.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#53

Post by yibg »

celticmusic wrote: post #31

Then the law needs to change. It's unconscionable for this to be happening. You make the buyers of that cobalt start caring, you'll make the producers of that cobalt start caring.

Why stop at the direct buyer then? Why not make the end consumer liable too? Make them care, you make the buyers of that cobalt start caring even more right? Heck why don’t we just extend liability down to the end of the chain for everything?

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#54

Post by zaroth »

rubbingalcohol wrote: post #49
Shivetya wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the liability is with the mining company and national government of Congo. the companies purchasing products can indeed put pressure on both to improve the working conditions of miners but in the end as with nearly every human tragedy, it comes down to the government to take responsibility for its actions and inaction. nothing changes until the local government has to change it.

You literally want to place the blame solely on a third world country for the deaths and disease of all these child laborers when it's our first world addiction to their resources driving the injustice in the first place? Who is in a better economic standing to improve this situation? Would you have no problem buying ivory, since it's the poacher who acted immorally, and you as the end consumer have no responsibility…

[Edited]

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#55

Post by franga2000 »

onreact wrote: post #2

It's about time tech giants take responsibility for the blood minerals they use. You can save people's lives by using the Fairphone already. It's free of those.

No, I can't. Just like sorting my trash won't save any fish/birds/whatever and riding my bike won't slow down the melting of the ice caps. The carbon footprint of my entire country is almost exactly 1/100th of the last company on the "top 100 polluters" list[1].

10 million people are just as powerless as one, if all they do is buy a different phone or whatever. But 10 million people voting for the politicians that will impose sanctions on these companies is going to make a difference. People are willing to buy canvas bags and electric cars, but taking the time to find a party that's willing to hold companies accountable and voting for them is just too much work. Don't "vote with your wallet" - it doesn't work. Vote with your VOTE!

[1] Carbon Majors Report, CDP, 2017

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#56

Post by [deleted] »

zaroth wrote: post #54
rubbingalcohol wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You literally want to place the blame solely on a third world country for the deaths and disease of all these child laborers when it's our first world addiction to their resources driving the injustice in the first place? Who is in a better economic standing to improve this situation? Would you have no problem buying ivory, since it's the poacher who acted immorally, and you as the end consumer have no responsibility…

[Edited]

[deleted]

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#57

Post by solidasparagus »

celticmusic wrote: post #31

Then the law needs to change. It's unconscionable for this to be happening. You make the buyers of that cobalt start caring, you'll make the producers of that cobalt start caring.

I don't think this makes much sense. The mineral supply chain in that part of the world is ridiculously hard to track. Even when you stop buying directly from the DRC, the minerals flow over the borders (see how Rwandan coltan exports jumped when people stopped buying DRC 'conflict' coltan). That part of the DRC is basically beyond the reach of the Congolese government and the bordering countries have been waging proxy wars for at least a decade in the DRC, specifically for mineral control. The problem needs to be addressed at the local level, not at the international purchasing level - this may make the tech giants purchase minerals from a new provider, but that is a cosmetic change that won't actually impact people on the ground in the DRC.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#58

Post by richmarr »

yibg wrote: post #53
celticmusic wrote: post #31

Then the law needs to change. It's unconscionable for this to be happening. You make the buyers of that cobalt start caring, you'll make the producers of that cobalt start caring.

Why stop at the direct buyer then? Why not make the end consumer liable too? Make them care, you make the buyers of that cobalt start caring even more right? Heck why don’t we just extend liability down to the end of the chain for everything?

Because the direct buyer is the one who has the most information and the most control.

In contrast the end user has almost no information, so punishing them is both unfair and ineffective.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#59

Post by solidasparagus »

swebs wrote: post #5

>Perhaps the only tragedy greater than the criminal destruction of the environment and the lives of the people of the Congo by these companies is the fact that it would be a rounding error on their income statements to fix the problem. Eh, I don't think giving more money to the third world mining companies is going to guarantee they're going to stop using child labor. The simplest and least risky decision for the tec…

People have tried that for Congolese coltan and the minerals just find their way over the borders to an 'acceptable' purchasing location.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#60

Post by pnako »

gwbas1c wrote: post #26
steve-benjamins wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the assumption is that ethical suppliers would be more expensive and that these companies have the margins to pay more.

> You see, two-thirds of the global supply of cobalt comes from the Congo. So already, right there, you cannot avoid Congolese cobalt.

You could ban/sanction Congolese cobalt; this would increase prices in the short run, while other producing countries adjust supply.
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