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Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

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Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#51

Post by wavefunction »

phillc73 wrote: post #39
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, he said “rational,” as in, how does Deere rationalize it. As far as I can tell, they’re just parroting the usual DMCA talking points… > John Deere declined to be interviewed but sent a lengthy statement outlining its concerns. The company doesn’t want people altering its copyright-protected code because, said director of public relations Ken Golden, “changes could lead to the unsafe operation of products, disru…

It's been many years since I was actively involved in agriculture, but I don't recall John Deere being a monopoly. There were choices including Ford, Case, Masse Ferguson, Kubota, New Holland and then regionally brands like MTZ and Steyr. That's not to say they're not all participating in the same practices, I just don't know, but is Deere really a monopoly?

Driving through rural Texas I've even seen a Tata dealership.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#52

Post by randomdata »

belorn wrote: post #19
korabas wrote: post #8

Honest question: what would be the rationale to prevent farmers from repairing their machinery themselves instead of through the manufacturer (in this case, Deere)? To my mind, from the point of view of the "user" (i.e. the farmer), that can be seen as somewhat monopolistic. I tried to find similarities between this situation and that of Apple not letting users tamper with their hardware, but it could be argued that…

Having certified repair stations allow you to extract money on certification, be sure that all parts are original and sold in a controlled market.

> all parts are original

John Deere bought out the only company that was really producing aftermarket parts a couple of years ago, so that's a non-issue for them.

As an aside, I had the JD tech out to work on my combine a while back. I watched him have to decrypt the service manual on his computer before he could use it. I was somewhat amazed at the lengths they go to to protect their information.

Almost. Once he unlocked it, he handed his computer to me and let me poke around freely. Hard to put a complete stop to social engineering.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#53

Post by Enginerrrd »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #29
eastof wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get really good support from Lineage OS for years to come. Been running it on all my android devices for years. The flagship models like Pixel usually have the best ongoing support.

> The flagship models like Pixel usually have the best ongoing support. When was the last time you checked on this? As far as I can see, LineageOS support is pretty much restricted to phones that have had it for years. There is no hope if you have a recent phone. There's also no hope if you have an old phone, unless it's already supported. For example, the most recent Pixel with support is... the Pixel. The original.

This has been my experience, and I feel like I've been lookding pretty hard. I'd really like to see this problem get solved.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#55

Post by tzs »

kevindong wrote: post #23

> 3. Include ALL OEM equipment, regardless of age, model, or years in use at the time of the effective date. To me, that clause seems to be overly broad since I'm interpreting it to mean that the manufacturers have to indefinitely support all of their products. If it's limited to all equipment that the OEM is willing to sell to at least one entity, then I'd say it's perfectly reasonable.

I believe that it is meant to be interpreted in conjunction with the item above it on the list:

> 2. Guarantee farmer/repair technician access to the identical information, parts, and tools that are available to dealerships. These items must be fairly and reasonably priced (taking into account both small and large producers) and be delivered in a timely manner.

They could stop providing information, parts, and tool for old models, but only if they also no longer provide the information, parts, and tools to their dealers.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#56

Post by steve19 »

kempbellt wrote: post #45
korabas wrote: post #8

Honest question: what would be the rationale to prevent farmers from repairing their machinery themselves instead of through the manufacturer (in this case, Deere)? To my mind, from the point of view of the "user" (i.e. the farmer), that can be seen as somewhat monopolistic. I tried to find similarities between this situation and that of Apple not letting users tamper with their hardware, but it could be argued that…

I'm for right-to-repair, but I'll give it a shot in defense of manufacturers. A lot of people assume it's just "evil-corp" greed. All of these reasons are money based, but not necessarily malicious. Liability: If a customer repairs a machine improperly and it causes more problems, or someone gets hurt, it can paint the manufacturer in a bad light. Many farmers know how to operate a tractor safely, but might not know…

> liability

When has any company been held liable for a customer modifying it.

> distribution channels

It might be annoying to create but they won't lose money on parts, it would likely be a profit center, just not as big a center as doing the repairs themselves.

They already distribute parts to dealers around the world who service the tractors.

> documentation

They already have repair documentation that they distribute to dealerships around the world.

Nobody is asking manufacturers to make huge sacrifices, just stop holding customers ransom.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#57

Post by geofft »

ISL wrote: post #14

Right to repair is increasingly hitting people outside of agrarian/industrial contexts. This month, Google shipped the last update for my Pixel phone. The hardware is functional and in great shape, but I don't think there are any truly viable ways for me to keep it secure. I have a tablet that long-ago met the same fate. This is in the same world where I can 'apt-get update' my seven-year old desktop and work with ap…

> It is my understanding that the primary blocker to serious open-source kernel development on phones is closed-source drivers for the phone hardware.

For what it's worth, Google (or at least parts of Google) agrees that the closed-source drivers are a problem for extended security lifecycle, and they're working with the Linux community to a) extend the kernel LTS cycle to 6 years b) make something that looks awfully like a stable API/ABI for drivers so that Android can upgrade you to a later point release of that LTS without requiring additional work from the hardware manufacturer. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/11/google-outlines-plan...

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#58

Post by wiremine »

Disclaimer: I'm a VP for an IoT software company. I also grew up in farming communities.

I'm all for the right to repair, but I'm concerned we're creating a bit of false hope for famers. As more and more software gets injected into the equipment, "fixing" things requires touching both the physical devices and the software.

Obviously, the right to repair for non-software related problems is easy to understand.

I'm wondering, however, how the current proposals handle software fixes or mixed use cases (software/hardware fixes)?

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#59

Post by squish78 »

This is excellent news, and good awareness for the ag sector.

The most existential threat to human survival is the consolidation of the farm sector. If any industry needs to be decentralized (for the sake of resiliency) it's agriculture.

We don't want to create single points of failure in the food supply

Urban USA doesn't can't comprehend the fact that famine is a logistical possibility if finance/tech fucks up farming.

Re: Nebraska farmers vote overwhelmingly for Right to Repair

#60

Post by impalallama »

wiremine wrote: post #58

Disclaimer: I'm a VP for an IoT software company. I also grew up in farming communities. I'm all for the right to repair, but I'm concerned we're creating a bit of false hope for famers. As more and more software gets injected into the equipment, "fixing" things requires touching both the physical devices and the software. Obviously, the right to repair for non-software related problems is easy to understand. I'm won…

Isn't a large part of this about being able to go to third parties as well?
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