Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Caffeine enhances activity of common antidepressants in forced swim test in mice

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 68 posts

Re: Caffeine enhances activity of common antidepressants in forced swim test in mice

#51

Post by dTal »

ta999999171 wrote: post #42
armatav wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like how this is getting flagged out - but it's 100% true - this dude is going to fry himself with practically 0% REM sleep.

Alcohol induces REM, so, you may not be as airtight as you think, there.

Source? Every result on Google for 'alcohol rem sleep' says it suppresses it during the initial phase of sleep, while the alcohol is still in your system. There is a "rebound effect" later in the night, after the alcohol has been metabolised, but spending the second half of the night in a lighter phase of sleep is not good either.

Basically, alcohol is uncontroversially terrible for sleep quality.

Re: Caffeine enhances activity of common antidepressants in forced swim test in mice

#52

Post by taneq »

friendlybus wrote: post #48
youeseh wrote: post #44

I hope one day the mice will finally thank us for all the hard work we've done in improving their quality of life.

They're doing the tests on us.

Well, if you look at the results...

X cures cancer in mice

Y increases lifespan in mice

Z improves disease resistance in mice

W reverses cognitive decline in mice

The signs are all there.

Re: Caffeine enhances activity of common antidepressants in forced swim test in mice

#53

Post by rkachowski »

taneq wrote: post #52
friendlybus wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're doing the tests on us.

Well, if you look at the results... X cures cancer in mice Y increases lifespan in mice Z improves disease resistance in mice W reverses cognitive decline in mice The signs are all there.

we could meet in the middle and actually change the human genome to be more like a mouse so we also get these benefits

Re: Caffeine enhances activity of common antidepressants in forced swim test in mice

#54

Post by hestefisk »

snagglegaggle wrote: post #47
sjg007 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s evidence that all of the effectiveness of antidepressants is due to the placebo effect. Contrast this with bipolar or schizophrenia where medications actually seem to benefit vs placebo.

A relative of mine is on a very strong SSRI and stimulant combination; talking to them is almost impossible, they're constantly interjecting and changing the subject. They're a coked up toddler with a particularly large vocabulary. A lot of SSRIs have the expected mechanism of action of disrupting your executive function. This is usually explained as making you more likely to act. The other is disrupting the linking…

What do you mean disrupting the executive function? I have taken citalopram (an SSRI) for years without any impact.

Re: Caffeine enhances activity of common antidepressants in forced swim test in mice

#56

Post by blowski »

lightedman wrote: post #32
mattkrause wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Figure 1 shows that 5,10,20,50 mg/kg caffeine has an effect on the forced-swim test, but not as strong as imipramine. Table 1 shows that the same doses of caffeine don’t make the mice more active in their cage, which might help address your concern.

"Table 1 shows that the same doses of caffeine don’t make the mice more active in their cage" As a former rat owner, and a former locked-up felon, if a rat (or human) is in a cage, it tends to know and act like it's in one. Caffeine isn't going to make you suddenly more energetic in your cage unless you've got some other underlying issues, so that part of the study is instantly suspect.

You’re probably right, but that’s an anecdote, not scientific evidence.

Re: Caffeine enhances activity of common antidepressants in forced swim test in mice

#57

Post by friendlybus »

taneq wrote: post #52
friendlybus wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're doing the tests on us.

Well, if you look at the results... X cures cancer in mice Y increases lifespan in mice Z improves disease resistance in mice W reverses cognitive decline in mice The signs are all there.

Don't forget your towel!

Re: Caffeine enhances activity of common antidepressants in forced swim test in mice

#58

Post by krageon »

mattkrause wrote: post #37
meowface wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the parent is wrong and that correcting them was needed, but I find all this hand-wringing about ethics in animal experiments kind of absurd, since it's so obviously fundamentally unethical in the first place (or at least I know of none that aren't unethical). I suspect it's mostly just a defense mechanism to shield the human mind from the trauma of continuously inflicting mass suffering and death, much…

Nonsense. I don’t know any researcher that likes sacrificing animals though every single one is painfully aware of the moral weight. They also go out of their way to minimize suffering, for ethical reasons, for selfish reasons, and even to improve the quality of the data. The reason I jumped down the parent's throat is because it reinforces the mistaken idea that scientists are okay with “moderately barbaric” things…

I'll grant that most of them don't like it, but there's a far too high fraction that uses animals even though they do not need to. This is a constant and ongoing point of contention between animal rights groups and large biologically-focused universities. Generally it comes down to budgeting concerns (ie it is cheaper to use animals) or time concerns (ie it is faster to use animals).

Whether or not one of those two arguments is compelling to you is another story.

Re: Caffeine enhances activity of common antidepressants in forced swim test in mice

#59

Post by seibelj »

dTal wrote: post #7
seibelj wrote: post #4

My perfect day is 8 hours of caffeine, an hour at the gym, 4 hours of alcohol, SSRI for a nightcap. YMMV

I hope you're exaggerating - that kind of cocktail is going to kill your sleep quality and, in the long-term, quite possibly fry your brain. Thumbs up on the exercise though.

I usually let these types of comments enable interesting discussion, but given the response and the worry that it validates someone else’s lifestyle, I must say that it was tongue-in-cheek. My perfect day does not imply my everyday. Please don’t drink alcohol for 4 hours every dear reader!

Re: Caffeine enhances activity of common antidepressants in forced swim test in mice

#60

Post by HorstG »

andbberger wrote: post #30
samatman wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is standard, it shouldn't be. Mammals sense CO2 buildup, not oxygen depletion. By smothering with CO2, the mice spend their last moments desperate to breathe and unable to. If they were to use nitrogen instead, the mice, having no way to know they've been deprived of oxygen, would just pass out and die.

There's a good chance I have that wrong and they use nitrogen. Like I said, I don't work in animal labs, just adjacent to them.

afaik (second hand) CO2 is used for safety reasons, humans can sense a CO2 poisoning but not an excess of nitrogen.
Post reply on HN