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Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

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Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#51

Post by Fnoord »

To the people who say "of course":

> The Spanish lawyer Aitor Martinez, one of the lawyers in Julian Assange's legal team filmed by UC Global, tells Repubblica: "Over the years Mr. Assange and his defense team held legal meetings inside the embassy. Those meetings were protected by the lawyer-client relationship and the fundamental right to defense.

What about this fundamental right?

> However we can see those meetings were spied on, according to the videos published by different media. Under these conditions, it is clear that extradition must be denied. We hope that British justice understands the scope of what has happened and denies extradition as soon as possible".

Interesting take, if this would become the end result for this very reason someone shot themselves in the foot.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#52

Post by rkagerer »

eternalny1 wrote: post #7
sschueller wrote: post #2

This is just sick. Why do we even have international laws if they are so blatantly violated? And of course no one will be held accountable.

What exactly do you think intelligence services do? They do this, that's their job.

Well they did a dismal job of it (i.e. were suspected and got caught). If justice prevails none of that evidence will be admissible, and the extradition efforts have likely been put at risk.

Listening in to privileged conversations between a lawyer and their client would be viewed quite poorly by any judge.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#53

Post by jhayward »

mindslight wrote: post #37

Good, right? I mean, if he really is some Russian asset rather than a straightforward political opposition journalist, they would have obtained loads of evidence to substantiate this. So, where is it?

It's where they keep all the other evidence of foreign intelligence operations - a secure classified intelligence facility. Where should they be keeping it?

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#54

Post by kick »

roywiggins wrote: post #43
kick wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I know a handful of men who'd disagree with you on the idea of the state not taking things (like privacy) that don't belong to them is "ludicrous"... "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights , that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Actually, if you go through the Declaration of In…

Assange isn't American, isn't on American soil, and people in his position have been fair game for surveillance for approximately the entire existence of America. George Washington personally ran a spy ring: https://www.mountvernon.org/george-washington/the-revolution...

It says that all men are endowed these rights by a creator, which doesn't imply that nationality has anything to do with those rights. George Washington was the worst of the Founding Fathers, and didn't write the Declaration of Independence.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#55

Post by newen »

pc86 wrote: post #31
whatshisface wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time news comes out, people say "this was obvious from the start," but every time a suggestion is made before the news has come out people say "that's crazy there is no evidence." It was not the case that he was "of course" being spied on, it was plausible that he was being spied on.

You honestly think if someone had made a comment "the US is spying on Assange directly or through intermediaries" someone would have said they were crazy and there was no evidence of that?

You know there is going to be a well acktually person saying that.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#56

Post by atmosx »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #45
whatshisface wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time news comes out, people say "this was obvious from the start," but every time a suggestion is made before the news has come out people say "that's crazy there is no evidence." It was not the case that he was "of course" being spied on, it was plausible that he was being spied on.

In October 2010, the day after WikiLeaks published the Iraq War Logs, the New York Times ran a front-page article that essentially painted Assange as paranoid.[1] Here's the opening: > Julian Assange moves like a hunted man. In a noisy Ethiopian restaurant in London's rundown Paddington district, he pitches his voice barely above a whisper to foil the Western intelligence agencies he fears. > He demands that his dwin…

Wikileaks schooled the entire western world mainstream media by releasing more material than they ever could hope.

I love the NYTimes, I consider them the best there is, but when it comes to US national matters or a specific Wall Street breed of Democrats, they are just as ridiculous as Fox News :-)

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#57

Post by [deleted] »

aisengard wrote: post #23
tspiteri wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using that reasoning, there was no story when Klaus Fuchs was caught spying on the Manhattan Project for the Soviet Union: Of course the Soviet Union intelligence were spying on the Manhattan Project, if they weren't spying on it they'de be derelict in their most basic of duties.

I mean, the story was that the Soviet Union was spying on its allies. Klaus Fuchs went to jail. All of this is pretty much accepted statecraft. Are we supposed to think that something _went wrong_ when Klaus Fuchs was caught spying and went to jail? That's what happens to spies who are caught. Hence Assange.

[deleted]

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#58

Post by black_puppydog »

I think it's worth remembering that this nation (the US) is currently trying to get Assange extradited. Part of the decision to be made in the UK should be wether or not the US will grant him a fair trial.

There are many reasons to throw that US demand out of the court, but this adds one more: they clearly have zero regard for any of his most inalienable rights. They have repeatedly violated them already, all the while trying (sadly successfully) a complete character assassination.

IMHO, if anything, the people responsible for this should be extradited to an international court.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#59

Post by ttul »

Fnoord wrote: post #51

To the people who say "of course": > The Spanish lawyer Aitor Martinez, one of the lawyers in Julian Assange's legal team filmed by UC Global, tells Repubblica: "Over the years Mr. Assange and his defense team held legal meetings inside the embassy. Those meetings were protected by the lawyer-client relationship and the fundamental right to defense. What about this fundamental right? > However we can see those meetin…

The right to attorney-client confidentiality does not apply in the context of national security intelligence gathering. The United States was within its rights to gather intelligence about a foreign person in a foreign country.

Such intelligence would be absolutely inadmissible in court. But intelligence agencies aren't interested in prosecuting people. They are tasked with national security, not prosecution.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#60

Post by farisjarrah »

ttul wrote: post #59
Fnoord wrote: post #51

To the people who say "of course": > The Spanish lawyer Aitor Martinez, one of the lawyers in Julian Assange's legal team filmed by UC Global, tells Repubblica: "Over the years Mr. Assange and his defense team held legal meetings inside the embassy. Those meetings were protected by the lawyer-client relationship and the fundamental right to defense. What about this fundamental right? > However we can see those meetin…

The right to attorney-client confidentiality does not apply in the context of national security intelligence gathering. The United States was within its rights to gather intelligence about a foreign person in a foreign country. Such intelligence would be absolutely inadmissible in court. But intelligence agencies aren't interested in prosecuting people. They are tasked with national security, not prosecution.

This doesn't make sense to me, please educate me as to what I am missing. Why is the United States within its rights to gather intelligence within the Ecuadorian Embassy within England? It seems like embassies of foreign countries, not located within the US's borders means that the US government has no legal rights to any of that. To me it looks like the US violated the rights of not just Ecuador's sovereignty, but also Great Brittan's.
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