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Facebook: We don’t need your consent

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Re: Facebook: We don’t need your consent

#51

Post by pwinnski »

lokar wrote: post #13
ivanbakel wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is not against ads generally, but instead Facebook's attempt to circumvent GDPR to continue showing personalised ads. GDPR should be used for exactly this purpose - it is a protection against companies collecting and using personal data in this way. Facebook has the choice to show ads, just not personalised ones. What is specifically being argued about is that Facebook tried to claim ads were a contractua…

And if FB is not feasible without personalized ads, no user should be allowed to make that choice for themselves?

If an illegal operation exists, should users be allowed to make that choice for themselves?

User choice has no bearing on the issue. The activity is either legal or not, and it should not be legal.

Re: Facebook: We don’t need your consent

#52

Post by buboard »

bad_user wrote: post #45
buboard wrote: post #28

while they may have a point their arguments are not well articulated > Europe’s strict privacy laws actually it's EU's privacy regulation > Facebook openly admitted that it has been collecting and processing data without users’ consent They said that they ve been collecting WITH consent, at least with their definition of consent > To prove that no one ordered advertising from Facebook, we conducted a neutral study by…

Also important to mention... serving ads without consent is not ilegal under GDPR, what is illegal is user profiling with the purpose of serving ads. In practice for Facebook the attraction for their ads platform is precisely that you can target fine grained demographics. So I'm not sure if Facebook can do anything here without a drop in revenue.

if the court gives them another fine (probably yes), FB will probably become a paid service in europe, but then will pay you back with its "ad viewing" program so it can be free again. This would also be compatible with california's new regulations i think

Re: Facebook: We don’t need your consent

#53

Post by [deleted] »

buboard wrote: post #28

while they may have a point their arguments are not well articulated > Europe’s strict privacy laws actually it's EU's privacy regulation > Facebook openly admitted that it has been collecting and processing data without users’ consent They said that they ve been collecting WITH consent, at least with their definition of consent > To prove that no one ordered advertising from Facebook, we conducted a neutral study by…

[deleted]

Re: Facebook: We don’t need your consent

#54

Post by sgift »

bad_user wrote: post #45
buboard wrote: post #28

while they may have a point their arguments are not well articulated > Europe’s strict privacy laws actually it's EU's privacy regulation > Facebook openly admitted that it has been collecting and processing data without users’ consent They said that they ve been collecting WITH consent, at least with their definition of consent > To prove that no one ordered advertising from Facebook, we conducted a neutral study by…

Also important to mention... serving ads without consent is not ilegal under GDPR, what is illegal is user profiling with the purpose of serving ads. In practice for Facebook the attraction for their ads platform is precisely that you can target fine grained demographics. So I'm not sure if Facebook can do anything here without a drop in revenue.

> So I'm not sure if Facebook can do anything here without a drop in revenue.

Probably not, but that's kind of the point: Some things may make you money, but we do not allow you to do them. Find another way to make money.

GDPR is not different from other laws forbidding lucrative, but scummy, things.

Re: Facebook: We don’t need your consent

#55

Post by bad_user »

oarabbus_ wrote: post #44
astrodev wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The European people, actually.

Could you elaborate?

I'm not the parent, but from my pov FB is a net negative for society, so if they are unwilling to play by our laws, then I'd rather see them get the fuck out.

They won't of course, because it leaves the market open for grabs.

Re: Facebook: We don’t need your consent

#56

Post by Swenrekcah »

hugi wrote: post #43
buboard wrote: post #28

while they may have a point their arguments are not well articulated > Europe’s strict privacy laws actually it's EU's privacy regulation > Facebook openly admitted that it has been collecting and processing data without users’ consent They said that they ve been collecting WITH consent, at least with their definition of consent > To prove that no one ordered advertising from Facebook, we conducted a neutral study by…

As an EU citizen I believe it's time we shut Facebook off. They've shown no willingness to abide by our law, so I don't see why a criminal company should be allowed to continue to operate here.

I certainly won’t miss them. My biggest concern isn’t even the data privacy issue, but the way they have effectively killed most discussion forums which were actually designed to make communicating clear and effective, as opposed to the unsearchable stream hell of facebook groups.

Re: Facebook: We don’t need your consent

#57

Post by Notorious_BLT »

xg15 wrote: post #9
rock_hard wrote: post #3

I don’t understand what’s so hard to understand about the fact that ads is what pays for Facebook to exist? It’s a key part of the offering! You get free access and get to see ads in exchange. Others have tried other business models and failed...that’s how the world works, the better offering wins! If the problem people have is ads then just make all ads illegal and we can move on. But trying to use GDPR as a lever i…

IMO, ads should be made illegal, but that's not the point here. Facebook is perfectly free to show ads to people, they are just not free to track people. They are trying to use ads as a justification for tracking here, which is the contested point. And before you answer that ads without tracking don't pay the bills, that's honestly Facebook's problem.

Every time I start thinking about ads being made illegal, I think about the small businesses who don't already have their brand established. Banning advertising entirely would crush many entrpreneurs for whom advertising is the only reason anyone knows who they are.

There's a big difference between massive companies seeking to keep their brand in your mind and small businesses trying to let you know they even exist.

But how do you ban one without banning both? Its a complicated issue

Re: Facebook: We don’t need your consent

#58

Post by thierryzoller »

buboard wrote: post #28

while they may have a point their arguments are not well articulated > Europe’s strict privacy laws actually it's EU's privacy regulation > Facebook openly admitted that it has been collecting and processing data without users’ consent They said that they ve been collecting WITH consent, at least with their definition of consent > To prove that no one ordered advertising from Facebook, we conducted a neutral study by…

Your are funny, you say their arguments are not well articulated, yet you do seem not to be up to point.

You argue they are regulations? European Regulations are law. European Directives and Regulation are the two main legislative

They argue users are using facebook because they want advertising, their primary usage is advertising and for that advertisement they consent to share their data. That's so ridiculous it is funny.

And no, FB does not give all the data, the definition of what data is in the regulation.

Both FB and their Privacy Director are not looking good.

Re: Facebook: We don’t need your consent

#59

Post by specialp »

dagav wrote: post #20
thepangolino wrote: post #5

Hasn’t there already been rulings against those kind of clauses being shoehorned in terms and conditions? I can’t make you sell your soul for subscribing to a service.

I don't think that's enforceable. You'd need some kind of soul extracting machine, or a soul-over-IP transfer mechanism. Maybe a soul mail-in option. You'd also need to implement some kind of soul storage warehouse. What would you do with all those souls anyway?

OK what if line 950, subsection B of the TOS agreement, gave Facebook the option to harvest one of your kidneys? Would that be enforceable? The point of the regulation is to make clear consent for personal information to be used. Saying the person clearly agreed to their "personalized advertising contract" by accepting the TOS, which allows them to use all of your personal info is debatable.

Re: Facebook: We don’t need your consent

#60

Post by wcarron »

alkonaut wrote: post #19
rock_hard wrote: post #3

I don’t understand what’s so hard to understand about the fact that ads is what pays for Facebook to exist? It’s a key part of the offering! You get free access and get to see ads in exchange. Others have tried other business models and failed...that’s how the world works, the better offering wins! If the problem people have is ads then just make all ads illegal and we can move on. But trying to use GDPR as a lever i…

I don’t mind ads. I mind tracking. Basically my demand is that Facebook show me dumb enough ads and use only data I consent to. Im ok with my age and gender and other things being used to target an ad - that’s information I already willingly gave them. But if they show me an ad based on a page I visited with a Facebook script snippet on it, a message about sneakers I sent to a friend, or a post I liked on Instagram t…

> But if they show me an ad based on a page I visited with a Facebook script snippet on it, a message about sneakers I sent to a friend, or a post I liked on Instagram they crossed a line regardless of what terms and conditions I accepted.

Uh, no, they haven't. YOU are responsible for visiting websites and using their services under terms and conditions you agreed to. YOU are responsible for and capable of not using sites do not agree with. You are getting a service in exchange for being tracked and shown ads. If you don't like it, delete your account, or fix your damn /etc/hosts file to block the (admittedly overwhelming) number of domains FB uses for these purposes.

I'm no fan of Fb. I deleted my account, blocked thousands of domains in my /etc/hosts file, use multiple ad-blockers, etc. etc. Fuckerberg going to prison would make me giddy. But, you don't get to have your mystical cake and eat it, too. You don't dictate how they run, or what data they collect, or how they use it. Get real, dude. Take responsibility for your actions. You agreed to what they do when you read(skipped) the terms of service/privacy policy when you signed up.

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