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Facebook and Microsoft Partner on Remote Development

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Re: Facebook and Microsoft Partner on Remote Development

#51

Post by wolco »

shaklee3 wrote: post #44
mraison wrote: post #17

Very happy about this move. Nuclide’s remote development capabilities were way above anything else I’ve tried (Sublime, IntelliJ Ultimate, VSCode, remote SSH mounts, etc). It’s the only solution I’ve found that really allows you to browse the remote filesystem as smoothly as you would with your local drive (including when you’re also changing the remote files outside the IDE), degrade functionality as needed when the…

What is missing from vscode for remote development? MS released their remote development extensions earlier this year, and everything from browsing to searching feels native.

Really? I'll give it a try. When vscode was first released this was the one feature missing.

Re: Facebook and Microsoft Partner on Remote Development

#52

Post by shaklee3 »

wolco wrote: post #51
shaklee3 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is missing from vscode for remote development? MS released their remote development extensions earlier this year, and everything from browsing to searching feels native.

Really? I'll give it a try. When vscode was first released this was the one feature missing.

I tried it on the first day it was released and haven't looked back. It's made me significantly more productive than with the old ssh plug-ins.

Re: Facebook and Microsoft Partner on Remote Development

#53

Post by uberman »

fatline wrote: post #31
uberman wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't like being tracked and Facebook has a long history of being deceptive around how and when it tracks people. Facebook also has a long history of selling the data it collects as a result of tracking even when the people being tracked try as they might to opt out. Hence the "big brother" reference. Frankly, I was/am a little leary of how Facebook might be "improving" the MSVSC Remote Development pack since…

> People don't like being tracked and Facebook has a long history of being deceptive around how and when it tracks people. you are mixing unrelated things. As an employee of a company it's unlikely you can raise any concern about your privacy when working on the company's main asset. > Facebook also has a long history of selling the data it collects as a result of tracking even when the people being tracked try as th…

My point was to elaborate on how some other user might feel that Facebook represent a big brother type actor.

However, you have suggested that there is or should be no privacy when doing development, but I'll remind you that not all devs work in large corporate environments and even when they do, they might reasonably expect to be watched only by their employer. It is frankly not 100% clear that Facebook will never have access to telemetry as a result of "improving" this set of plugins. They certainly did not suggest as much.

In my opinion, there is a dramatic difference between what my employer may or may not do to track me and what a 3rd party social media company may or may not do to track my development practices as a result of using a plugin.

While semantically I may have overstated that Facebook "sells" data, they unquestionably considered doing so between 2012 and 2014 despite promises made to the contrary. They also unquestionably shared data with other large data aggregators. Even if USD did not change hands I think we can be fairly certain that Facebook bartered in user data.

Here is your reference: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/facebook-gave-some-companies-pr...

Re: Facebook and Microsoft Partner on Remote Development

#54

Post by uberman »

tudelo wrote: post #16
uberman wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't like being tracked and Facebook has a long history of being deceptive around how and when it tracks people. Facebook also has a long history of selling the data it collects as a result of tracking even when the people being tracked try as they might to opt out. Hence the "big brother" reference. Frankly, I was/am a little leary of how Facebook might be "improving" the MSVSC Remote Development pack since…

As an employee working on a corporate device everything will be tracked anyways, this is the most tin-foil take ever. Your latter concern is at least a reasonable one, but it should all be open source anyways? Not that any of us have the time to audit everything. I doubt Microsoft is going to allow anything nefarious...

My employer might track me, but how does that mitigate my concerns that a 3rd party data aggregator like Facebook might track me as well as a result of installing a closed source plugin that they "improved".

Re: Facebook and Microsoft Partner on Remote Development

#55

Post by lugg »

fatline wrote: post #31
uberman wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't like being tracked and Facebook has a long history of being deceptive around how and when it tracks people. Facebook also has a long history of selling the data it collects as a result of tracking even when the people being tracked try as they might to opt out. Hence the "big brother" reference. Frankly, I was/am a little leary of how Facebook might be "improving" the MSVSC Remote Development pack since…

> People don't like being tracked and Facebook has a long history of being deceptive around how and when it tracks people. you are mixing unrelated things. As an employee of a company it's unlikely you can raise any concern about your privacy when working on the company's main asset. > Facebook also has a long history of selling the data it collects as a result of tracking even when the people being tracked try as th…

Unrelated? How? It's Facebook. They have shown a repeated assualt and disavowement of social responsibility. I wouldn't expect Exon mobile to do very nice things in non oil contexts. Are you saying you would?

Reference? Where have you been? Cambridge analytica? It's advertising arms? It's all selling user data either directly or indirectly. Don't be so naive.

Re: Facebook and Microsoft Partner on Remote Development

#57

Post by lugg »

shaklee3 wrote: post #46
mcny wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally, I have found remote development awesome because it enables engineers to start contributing to a huge product in the very first hour. No need to wait for the repository to clone, the dependencies to install, and the code to build before you can become productive. I am nobody but I've had this nagging feeling ever since I started working on websites for big corporations about why can't I work on my code o…

Outside of web development, sometimes you need special hardware or workspaces configured to do development. Usually this can be done in a container, but that comes with its own annoyances. Having a central development server for large compiled code bases is really useful.

Those are all valid trade offs, but its ignoring the issue raised in the AP.

Like, is an environment like this encouraging bad habbits?

But anyway..

Special hardware: such as? Very few systems can't be downscaled. Situations where you need this special hardware we are talking horizontal multi server setups anyway.

Special workspaces: be less special, improve tooling, improve build operations. Very few setups actually needs centralised configuration.

Large compilations: I'm not sold that a) there is many people with the justifiable need, and b) any real justifiable need is likely going to want on demand autoscaling of the compilation servers, i.e. development won't be local anyway.

I'm not trying to debunk everything you've said. It's a trade off and I've used central dev databases in the past for legacy systems and it worked well for those in the office.

All I can tell you is that iteration speed, testability of code, manual testing and all around team morale was DRASTICALLY improved by stubbing out that bottleneck in newer systems.

Re: Facebook and Microsoft Partner on Remote Development

#58

Post by shaklee3 »

lugg wrote: post #57
shaklee3 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of web development, sometimes you need special hardware or workspaces configured to do development. Usually this can be done in a container, but that comes with its own annoyances. Having a central development server for large compiled code bases is really useful.

Those are all valid trade offs, but its ignoring the issue raised in the AP. Like, is an environment like this encouraging bad habbits? But anyway.. Special hardware: such as? Very few systems can't be downscaled. Situations where you need this special hardware we are talking horizontal multi server setups anyway. Special workspaces: be less special, improve tooling, improve build operations. Very few setups actually…

I'm speaking for my individual case and others I work with where we have codebases of over a million lines of c++, with many header-only libraries. On an 80-core server make -j can still take 3-4 minutes, and that uses all the resources on the machine. Trust me, I wish I could have something as fast that's not centralized. The closest I can think of is either a VM (slow/wasteful), or a container. The container would be really easy if everyone used vscode with the container development plugin, but not everyone on the team does.

For those that don't, it's much more friction to remember to start it up, etc.

Re: Facebook and Microsoft Partner on Remote Development

#59

Post by Trimbell »

shaklee3 wrote: post #44
mraison wrote: post #17

Very happy about this move. Nuclide’s remote development capabilities were way above anything else I’ve tried (Sublime, IntelliJ Ultimate, VSCode, remote SSH mounts, etc). It’s the only solution I’ve found that really allows you to browse the remote filesystem as smoothly as you would with your local drive (including when you’re also changing the remote files outside the IDE), degrade functionality as needed when the…

What is missing from vscode for remote development? MS released their remote development extensions earlier this year, and everything from browsing to searching feels native.

I've had a similar experience. Nothing but good things to say about it, the extension works incredibly well.
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