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Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

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Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#51

Post by eznoonze »

davidwitt415 wrote: post #42

Mirror check on 'intense nationalism' - how many Americans supported or still support unlimited US military actions around the globe, not to mention CIA buggery? How has democratic activity slowed this down in any meaningful way in the last 20 years? You are not as immune as you think to government propaganda, it's just easier to spot when it's another country.

Hmmm....Government propaganda is one thing. But sending you to concentration camp or prison because you have different views from the government is another.

Not sure what kind of equivalency you are trying to make here.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#52

Post by jjtheblunt »

justinzollars wrote: post #9
umvi wrote: post #7

Title should read: "Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils (Chinese) Facebook Employees" At any rate, I applaud Zuckerberg for actually having a spine when it comes to China, unlike Tim Cook.

Agreed. Tim Cook seems laser focused on shipping as much of our semiconductor industry to China as possible.

I don't get that impression at all. Semiconductor fabs may exist overseas, but the technology is predominately domestic, from what i can tell. Micron in Idaho is an American powerhouse, for example.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#53

Post by paganel »

nailer wrote: post #26
paganel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no bias against China as a country, or Chinese people. At some point you also have to make it about the people, too, after all the Chinese Communist Party is comprised of Chinese people.

No you don't. The Chinese Communist Party being made up of Chinese people mean does not mean criticism of the CCP is criticism of Chinese people.

At the end of it all the Chinese people are supporting said regime, even if they're Party members or not, you have to take responsibility from a certain point on. And I do certainly judge my older compatriots for not having done more in order to stand up against the Communist regime in my own country (I live in an Eastern European country which technically was communist until 1989).

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#54

Post by null_vector »

mistersquid wrote: post #24
throwGuardian wrote: post #5

Puzzle me this - as an employee in the US, for a company paying well above market for your labor, with generous perks and the freedom to speak out against the employer (which is likely absent in China), the response of the Chinese workforce seems rather paradoxical - criticising an accommodating work environment, which, mind you, is only possible because of freedom of speech Or, the press is out to make a mountain of…

> the response of the Chinese workforce seems rather paradoxical - criticising an accommodatung work environment, which, mind you, is only possible because of freedom of speech You’re questioning, and implicitly criticizing, these workers for exercising their access to free speech, for complaining about an aspect of their employer’s position about their country of origin. Such an implicit critique undermines the foun…

You used a lot of words to say nothing at all.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#55

Post by idoh »

Cookingboy wrote: post #49
larnmar wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should read “Chinese Government”, not China, too. The Chinese government was not elected by the Chinese, is not in any sense a legitimate representative of the Chinese, and has no more right to rule over China than I do. Conflating criticism of the CCP with criticism of the country that they illegitimately rule is CCP propaganda techniques 101.

What is legitimacy? A government's job is to serve as many of its people as much as possible for as long as possible, so playing devil's advocate, why isn't the legitimacy of a government judged by how good it's doing its job vs. how it came into power? Historically speaking there have been plenty of prosperous societies that was ruled by "illegitimate" governments (and I'm not even saying China is one), and plenty o…

Fair point, it is hard to draw an exact line. But once a government starts throwing peaceful protestors into concentration camps I think we can all agree that it has crossed the line, right?

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#56

Post by mywittyname »

thorwasdfasdf wrote: post #17
scarmig wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might suit both anti- and pro-PRC propagandists, but it's not reflective of reality on the ground. Chinese people have plenty of self-conception, independent thoughts, and the ability to distinguish between themselves and their government and objectively judge government actions. At least, no less so than people anywhere.

Anyone who's ever lived in china for several years will tell you chinese nationalism is extremely intense. Even in america, if you have a conversation with a chinese person about the PRC or even just economic conditions in china, that person will in any case, always defend the PRC under any condition, no matter what the PRC has done, even if they themselves are against the PRC and agree with what your saying.

I do this when people from other nations unfairly criticize the USA, even when I agree with what they are saying. So as a word of advice, when this happens...

> defend the PRC under any condition[...] even if they agree with what your saying.

Then your argument likely heavy-handed or misses the nuance of the situation. Using the USA as an example, the impression a foreigner gets from looking at gun statistics is completely different from reality. So if a person from Europe starts to lecture you on guns in the USA, you're going to get a little defensive at their incorrect assumptions, even if you agree with their stance in general.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#57

Post by pertymcpert »

mistersquid wrote: post #24
throwGuardian wrote: post #5

Puzzle me this - as an employee in the US, for a company paying well above market for your labor, with generous perks and the freedom to speak out against the employer (which is likely absent in China), the response of the Chinese workforce seems rather paradoxical - criticising an accommodating work environment, which, mind you, is only possible because of freedom of speech Or, the press is out to make a mountain of…

> the response of the Chinese workforce seems rather paradoxical - criticising an accommodatung work environment, which, mind you, is only possible because of freedom of speech You’re questioning, and implicitly criticizing, these workers for exercising their access to free speech, for complaining about an aspect of their employer’s position about their country of origin. Such an implicit critique undermines the foun…

You are doing it to a much worse extent.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#58

Post by harimau777 »

Cookingboy wrote: post #49
larnmar wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should read “Chinese Government”, not China, too. The Chinese government was not elected by the Chinese, is not in any sense a legitimate representative of the Chinese, and has no more right to rule over China than I do. Conflating criticism of the CCP with criticism of the country that they illegitimately rule is CCP propaganda techniques 101.

What is legitimacy? A government's job is to serve as many of its people as much as possible for as long as possible, so playing devil's advocate, why isn't the legitimacy of a government judged by how good it's doing its job vs. how it came into power? Historically speaking there have been plenty of prosperous societies that was ruled by "illegitimate" governments (and I'm not even saying China is one), and plenty o…

Are there examples of prosperous societies ruled by "illegitimate" governments that didn't have an equivalent of peasants/serfs?

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#59

Post by pertymcpert »

hangonhn wrote: post #37
tossAfterUsing wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (though I left fairly young) how is it reasonable to take your anecdote as a decent reference point for somebody who has grown up in china, speaking mandarin, and learning about the world through CCP-funded public schooling?

Is it any less reasonable than someone claiming the totality of Chinese culture consists of blind obedience to a political party? He's claiming this kind of indoctrination starts at a young age. If that's the case I would have seen some of that. Also, as I've stated, a good chunk of my family are born and raised in China and some still live there. They're not all of one opinion when it comes to the government. Is it…

It’s an extremely common viewpoint though, from personal experience.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#60

Post by pertymcpert »

mywittyname wrote: post #56
thorwasdfasdf wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who's ever lived in china for several years will tell you chinese nationalism is extremely intense. Even in america, if you have a conversation with a chinese person about the PRC or even just economic conditions in china, that person will in any case, always defend the PRC under any condition, no matter what the PRC has done, even if they themselves are against the PRC and agree with what your saying.

I do this when people from other nations unfairly criticize the USA, even when I agree with what they are saying. So as a word of advice, when this happens... > defend the PRC under any condition[...] even if they agree with what your saying. Then your argument likely heavy-handed or misses the nuance of the situation. Using the USA as an example, the impression a foreigner gets from looking at gun statistics is comp…

Why? Why would you get defensive? It’s nothing personal against you. Argue the facts, don’t get emotional.
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