Any time these topics around weakening privacy or removing encryption comes up, it's nearly always presented with a save the children type of argument. I mean, who doesn't want to protect children from child abuse and predators? The problem however, is that most children that are abused are done so by family members or people already close to them (like maybe their priests), so with that in mind I don't really understand how weakening encryption will help protect children from predators.
Interpol plans to condemn encryption spread, citing predators
51–60 of 299 posts
Re: Interpol plans to condemn encryption spread, citing predators
#52The issue here is that you can't stop people from using encryption; they'll just start using a combination of encryption and steganography for example.
It isn't like we are dealing with people who are afraid to break the law.
Re: Interpol plans to condemn encryption spread, citing predators
#53Encryption is math, and not even hard math at that. You have as much chance of stopping evil people from using encryption as you have of stopping them from doing multiplication. Make every politician who opposes encryption feel like an idiot for thinking they can stop people from adding and multiplying.
Encryption is math.
No it isn't. The algorithm is math, but the application is much more than that. It's design, ux, marketing, etc. Governments weren't calling for an end to encryption when PGP was the best most people had. The thing that changed is how easy it is now, and that lower barrier is what governments are fighting in a very ill-thought way.
Re: Interpol plans to condemn encryption spread, citing predators
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
I also this is a good time to remember that not every citizen has to have the same values on this. Some people might think the tradeoff in terms of freedoms vs security is worth it. It seems everyone is so eager to paint the other side as objectively wrong / motivated by bad intentions, when in reality I don't believe this is an objectively right answer. As a society we have to decide how much freedom and security we…
> I also this is a good time to remember that not every citizen has to have the same values on this It's also important to remember that not every nation will have the same set of values on this and that as the world becomes more international you're relationship with other world governments becomes more M * N. Imagine a world without encryption where the Saudi government had our access logs and decided to share what…
OTOH, it's the point of having nation states to allow different prioritizations of values and different legal systems to coexist. It's the same reason the US is proud of being a federation of states.
Re: Interpol plans to condemn encryption spread, citing predators
#55This is a good time to remember that police forces work for governments and not the other way around. Of course it would be easier for the police to catch bad guys if they had full-text search access to all conversations and content, worldwide. That doesn’t mean it is a good idea. They’re asking for something to make their job easier... can’t blame them for trying, and of course who doesn’t want to catch people who h…
> Of course it would be easier for the police to catch bad guys if they had full-text search access to all conversations and content, worldwide.
That’s what the govs always try to imply. The reality is, the minimally sophisticated “bad guys” will still use encrypted means and now we can imagine who’s really affected by this condemnation.
Re: Interpol plans to condemn encryption spread, citing predators
#56So in the same time they should condemn democracy and freedom, as they're having exactly the same effect. It is much easier for police in authoritarian countries to prevent crimes and find perpetrators.
But if they don't condemn democracy and freedom, they should also not condemn encryption. The ability to communicate privately, or saying things outside the consensus anonymously, is an important tool for citizens to protect democracy.
The Interpol job is to protect the law under the settings of democracy and freedom, not to try to change those settings in order to make their job easier.
Re: Interpol plans to condemn encryption spread, citing predators
#57You can do encryption with a pen, paper, and a calculator. The genie is out of the bottle at this point.
Re: Interpol plans to condemn encryption spread, citing predators
#58This is a good time to remember that police forces work for governments and not the other way around. Of course it would be easier for the police to catch bad guys if they had full-text search access to all conversations and content, worldwide. That doesn’t mean it is a good idea. They’re asking for something to make their job easier... can’t blame them for trying, and of course who doesn’t want to catch people who h…
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Re: Interpol plans to condemn encryption spread, citing predators
#59Any time these topics around weakening privacy or removing encryption comes up, it's nearly always presented with a save the children type of argument. I mean, who doesn't want to protect children from child abuse and predators? The problem however, is that most children that are abused are done so by family members or people already close to them (like maybe their priests), so with that in mind I don't really unders…
That's because there is a deeper agenda than just "protecting children". If you read the Edward Snowden book (permanent record) then you'll note that he talks about what the NSA/CIA is actually doing with their signals intelligence programs. It isn't about national security, it is about espionage on a global scale. They want information on what foreign governments, journalists, domestic organizations (not just terrorist groups as they claim) and corporations are doing. For domestic citizens, they want to know if you are a threat to the United States or violating laws.
The second strong end-to-end encryption is implemented, the whole system simply fails to operate. Instead of having a massive data collection system, you now have to go back to more traditional methods that require much more effort to implement - like hacking a target's computer directly. If that happens then the USA will lose its edge in terms of obtaining critical information and that will be a treat to their global dominance....hence the reason they mention national security. Of course, you can't just come out and say this is the reason so they mask it in "fighting sexual exploitation" etc.
The truth is end-to-end encryption and fighting sexual exploitation are not mutually exclusive. We can have both.
Re: Interpol plans to condemn encryption spread, citing predators
#60This is such a tired argument but is becoming more and more widespread. It's time for IT professionals beyond just the activists like the EFF to stand up and explain how encryption is good and necessary.
It's not like this BS is new BS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_wars
Everyone who wants to know knows or is a newbie.
However, if newbies come into the discussion faster than they can be brought up to speed there's a risk of an "Eternal September" effect diluting common sense, so you're basically right about how we should all be explaining it to our friends and family and whatnot.