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Mexican mammoth trap provides first evidence of prehistoric hunting pits

theguardian.com

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Re: Mexican mammoth trap provides first evidence of prehistoric hunting pits

#51

Post by nkozyra »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #45
Razengan wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't chimpanzees etc. also coordinate hunting/raiding parties? I also recall a segment from BBC's Blue Planet, where an octopus and another fish whose name I cannot recall (grouper?), two entirely different species, communicate with each other via the color of their skin to surround and trap prey. > Our most amazing ancestors were not kings and emperors, but rather these pre-historic hunters and gatherers who carved…

Orca whales and dolphins also will hunt larger prey. One on my favorite examples is that of the orcas in Eden Australia. The orcas would shepard baleen whales to whaling vessels in the bay, then help the whalers kill them in exchange for the tongue and lips of the prey. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whales_of_Eden,_New_Sou...

Not larger, but it's also speculated that orcas will hunt competing 'apex' great white sharks.

Re: Mexican mammoth trap provides first evidence of prehistoric hunting pits

#52

Post by k3liutZu »

Razengan wrote: post #40
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #3

> Hunters may have used torches to scare the mammals into the area with the traps, which are about 6ft (1.70m) deep and 25 yards in diameter, but one of the skulls found also had marks of a spear wound on the front. I find humans amazing. An adult mammoth is something even the more largest predators would not attempt to hunt. And yet, here is a band of puny 2 legged mammals armed with sticks with a flint at the end,…

Don't chimpanzees etc. also coordinate hunting/raiding parties? I also recall a segment from BBC's Blue Planet, where an octopus and another fish whose name I cannot recall (grouper?), two entirely different species, communicate with each other via the color of their skin to surround and trap prey. > Our most amazing ancestors were not kings and emperors, but rather these pre-historic hunters and gatherers who carved…

> Then imagine how many other worlds out there must be going through the same development right at this very moment.

I guess we could argue this point against large swaths of the Earths animal kingdoms as well. Do we know where to draw such a line?

Re: Mexican mammoth trap provides first evidence of prehistoric hunting pits

#53

Post by mkl »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #3

> Hunters may have used torches to scare the mammals into the area with the traps, which are about 6ft (1.70m) deep and 25 yards in diameter, but one of the skulls found also had marks of a spear wound on the front. I find humans amazing. An adult mammoth is something even the more largest predators would not attempt to hunt. And yet, here is a band of puny 2 legged mammals armed with sticks with a flint at the end,…

> An adult mammoth is something even the more largest predators would not attempt to hunt.

Not to dispute your larger point, but lions hunt African elephants, which are a similar size to mammoths (many mammoths were actually smaller).

Re: Mexican mammoth trap provides first evidence of prehistoric hunting pits

#54

Post by chopin »

burtonator wrote: post #31
thrower123 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine trying to deal with a mammoth. Especially with only stone cutting tools. The only thing I can think of would be luring one near a winter camp and killing it nearby, when it would be cold enough to keep or freeze. Even if you could butcher the several tons of meat and get it dried or smoked in time, transport and storage would be huge problems. It's enough of an ordeal to process a moose, with modern t…

> Especially with only stone cutting tools. If they were using obsidian other than the issue of constantly having to knap new blades it should have been somewhat easy to work with. The only reason we don't use this in modern times is that the blades break apart over the long term.

Nevertheless, there are ceramic blades for sale. I don't own them but I can imagine that they are more difficult to sharpen.

Re: Mexican mammoth trap provides first evidence of prehistoric hunting pits

#55

Post by red75prime »

grawprog wrote: post #14
qwerty456127 wrote: post #10

Do people seriously believe ancient humans hunted mammoths? I thought it's just a popular myth (some people even believe they rode dinosaurs, you know). Weren't there other animals handier to hunt?

Ya, but a single mammoth could provide exponentially more meat for the same efforts of hunting multiple smaller animals.

One mammoth - 2 boars, three mammoths - 8 boars, ten mammoths - 1024 boars? That's what exponential means.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

Re: Mexican mammoth trap provides first evidence of prehistoric hunting pits

#56

Post by shawabawa3 »

red75prime wrote: post #55
grawprog wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya, but a single mammoth could provide exponentially more meat for the same efforts of hunting multiple smaller animals.

One mammoth - 2 boars, three mammoths - 8 boars, ten mammoths - 1024 boars? That's what exponential means. Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

He said exponential returns on effort.

i.e. Hunting a rabbit = 1 unit of effort and 1 unit of meat

A boar = 4 units of effort and 16 units of meat

A mammoth = 8 units of effort and 256 units of meat

So it actually kind of makes sense here

Re: Mexican mammoth trap provides first evidence of prehistoric hunting pits

#57

Post by lordgrenville »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #3

> Hunters may have used torches to scare the mammals into the area with the traps, which are about 6ft (1.70m) deep and 25 yards in diameter, but one of the skulls found also had marks of a spear wound on the front. I find humans amazing. An adult mammoth is something even the more largest predators would not attempt to hunt. And yet, here is a band of puny 2 legged mammals armed with sticks with a flint at the end,…

A lot of ancient myths about the origin of humanity involve some figure stealing fire from the gods and giving it to humans (Prometheus being perhaps the best known example). Interesting how this aligns with this story: fire being the technology that distinguishes humans from other animals.

Re: Mexican mammoth trap provides first evidence of prehistoric hunting pits

#58

Post by Razengan »

jlj wrote: post #47
Razengan wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't chimpanzees etc. also coordinate hunting/raiding parties? I also recall a segment from BBC's Blue Planet, where an octopus and another fish whose name I cannot recall (grouper?), two entirely different species, communicate with each other via the color of their skin to surround and trap prey. > Our most amazing ancestors were not kings and emperors, but rather these pre-historic hunters and gatherers who carved…

We don't know for sure that humans on our own planet are unique in having the qualities you described. Many animal species show advanced social structures and intelligence. We are resourceful, that's for sure.

Certainly. Even as a causal observer it's easy to notice these things in other animals. Intelligence is not a boolean flag.

Re: Mexican mammoth trap provides first evidence of prehistoric hunting pits

#59

Post by Razengan »

k3liutZu wrote: post #52
Razengan wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't chimpanzees etc. also coordinate hunting/raiding parties? I also recall a segment from BBC's Blue Planet, where an octopus and another fish whose name I cannot recall (grouper?), two entirely different species, communicate with each other via the color of their skin to surround and trap prey. > Our most amazing ancestors were not kings and emperors, but rather these pre-historic hunters and gatherers who carved…

> Then imagine how many other worlds out there must be going through the same development right at this very moment. I guess we could argue this point against large swaths of the Earths animal kingdoms as well. Do we know where to draw such a line?

> I guess we could argue this point against large swaths of the Earths animal kingdoms as well.

Yes that's what I meant to say with "being on the cusp of awareness and intelligence." Many of them are going through what we must have gone through.

Re: Mexican mammoth trap provides first evidence of prehistoric hunting pits

#60

Post by Razengan »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #45
Razengan wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't chimpanzees etc. also coordinate hunting/raiding parties? I also recall a segment from BBC's Blue Planet, where an octopus and another fish whose name I cannot recall (grouper?), two entirely different species, communicate with each other via the color of their skin to surround and trap prey. > Our most amazing ancestors were not kings and emperors, but rather these pre-historic hunters and gatherers who carved…

Orca whales and dolphins also will hunt larger prey. One on my favorite examples is that of the orcas in Eden Australia. The orcas would shepard baleen whales to whaling vessels in the bay, then help the whalers kill them in exchange for the tongue and lips of the prey. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whales_of_Eden,_New_Sou...

Given your name I'd expect you to have an interest in dolphins. :)
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