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A Simple Dutch Cure for Stress

nautil.us

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Re: A Simple Dutch Cure for Stress

#51

Post by irrespective »

stevesimmons wrote: post #9

Nonsense! The actual Dutch cure for stress is to claim you have "burnout" (they use the English word), and then take 6 months off work while being paid 80% of your salary. Honestly, after working for 6 years in the Netherlands, I don't know of another country that has such good working conditions [1], while having so many people in low stress professional jobs taking time off for burnout. There seems zero social or p…

And yet despite all that gasp lost productivity (how dare people take care of their family!) the Netherlands is still a pretty nice place to live. Maybe the rest of the world should follow suit.

Re: A Simple Dutch Cure for Stress

#52

Post by flyGuyOnTheSly »

amoron wrote: post #20
stevesimmons wrote: post #9

Nonsense! The actual Dutch cure for stress is to claim you have "burnout" (they use the English word), and then take 6 months off work while being paid 80% of your salary. Honestly, after working for 6 years in the Netherlands, I don't know of another country that has such good working conditions [1], while having so many people in low stress professional jobs taking time off for burnout. There seems zero social or p…

> There seems zero social or professional stigma about it. Actually, I think there is some stigma but we are prohibited from discussing it publicly due to modern values. Burnout is bound to have some negative impact on career opportunities as one is unlikely to regain their status and responsibilities on return.

That seems fair.

If you are apt to go missing for 6 months every other year for whatever reason, an employer wouldn't invest a lot of expensive training in you.

Re: A Simple Dutch Cure for Stress

#53

Post by RC_ITR »

openstep wrote: post #25
stevesimmons wrote: post #9

Nonsense! The actual Dutch cure for stress is to claim you have "burnout" (they use the English word), and then take 6 months off work while being paid 80% of your salary. Honestly, after working for 6 years in the Netherlands, I don't know of another country that has such good working conditions [1], while having so many people in low stress professional jobs taking time off for burnout. There seems zero social or p…

American here living in the Netherlands for the past seven years. The one thing I've noticed about folks taking these burnout sessions is that some absolutely take advantage of the system. Multiple people have told me firsthand that they're on burnout just because they want to be. Not because they're burned out. It goes so far that they lie during the mandatory therapy session provided by their employer in order to s…

I mean, what is “burnout” other than not wanting to work?

Maybe they’re just saying that to you because they assume (as an expat) that you don’t share their value system?

Re: A Simple Dutch Cure for Stress

#54

Post by _f9cu »

wadkar wrote: post #17
_f9cu wrote: post #7

The simple Indian cure for stress - Meditation. a.k.a watching your breath

This is not a substantive comment. You could’ve taken a bit more effort and provided some thoughtful comments on how meditation can help you be in touch with your emotions etc. Simply saying meditation equals watching your breath doesn’t help make your point. Finally this thread is about the dutch culture and how they deal with stress. Appreciate it, even if it doesn’t align with the point you’re trying to make.

I'm sorry. Should have thought about it for a moment. I am annoyed by the way articles are published. If something is simple, why wouldn't someone put it in a short one liner than providing a detailed explanation?

This is not just about this article, I have been following space/tech/economy. Nothing really provides facts.

For example:

Scientists may have found new variety of black hole - Does it really add to any kind of knowledge / is it a breakthrough. not at all. finding something called black hole, but finding varieties of it, is not. Its just a copied version of someone else's finding and finding some tweaks.

Now to tech, - What good is it doing? New tech comes, couple of years later flaws made by the organisation comes out or they get hacked and users details get leaked. Impact is too much and they escape with an apology letter from CEO. Apology email + fined amount is still a good investment for the leaked data. thats how they see.

list goes on for every field.

Who is the first culprit of all these? the intellectual? Why to race everyone ? What the point ? Doing good isn't. But why money comes into picture in doing good?

Why would anyone encourage doing all these?

If something seems to be flawed, I'm trying to share my opinion in most polite way but for this one It went off the control. Apologies. Lesson taken. Thank you.

Re: A Simple Dutch Cure for Stress

#55

Post by 0xfaded »

amoron wrote: post #20
stevesimmons wrote: post #9

Nonsense! The actual Dutch cure for stress is to claim you have "burnout" (they use the English word), and then take 6 months off work while being paid 80% of your salary. Honestly, after working for 6 years in the Netherlands, I don't know of another country that has such good working conditions [1], while having so many people in low stress professional jobs taking time off for burnout. There seems zero social or p…

> There seems zero social or professional stigma about it. Actually, I think there is some stigma but we are prohibited from discussing it publicly due to modern values. Burnout is bound to have some negative impact on career opportunities as one is unlikely to regain their status and responsibilities on return.

I've heard the same thing said behind closed doors about paternity leave in Denmark.

Re: A Simple Dutch Cure for Stress

#56

Post by dang »

irrespective wrote: post #51
stevesimmons wrote: post #9

Nonsense! The actual Dutch cure for stress is to claim you have "burnout" (they use the English word), and then take 6 months off work while being paid 80% of your salary. Honestly, after working for 6 years in the Netherlands, I don't know of another country that has such good working conditions [1], while having so many people in low stress professional jobs taking time off for burnout. There seems zero social or p…

And yet despite all that gasp lost productivity (how dare people take care of their family!) the Netherlands is still a pretty nice place to live. Maybe the rest of the world should follow suit.

Could you please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and not post in the flamewar style to HN? We're trying to avoid that here.

Re: A Simple Dutch Cure for Stress

#57

Post by rantwasp »

RC_ITR wrote: post #53
openstep wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American here living in the Netherlands for the past seven years. The one thing I've noticed about folks taking these burnout sessions is that some absolutely take advantage of the system. Multiple people have told me firsthand that they're on burnout just because they want to be. Not because they're burned out. It goes so far that they lie during the mandatory therapy session provided by their employer in order to s…

I mean, what is “burnout” other than not wanting to work? Maybe they’re just saying that to you because they assume (as an expat) that you don’t share their value system?

oh wow. i think burnout is more complicated than “i don’t want to work”. way more complicated.

Re: A Simple Dutch Cure for Stress

#58

Post by mrkoot »

mettamage wrote: post #10

If you know the term "uitwaaien" I'd say this rings pretty much true: "Meyer has lived in the Netherlands for more than 20 years and has come to specialize in the language, despite being a non-native speaker." In all fairness, I haven't heard or used the word for a couple of years now, so not sure to what extent this is true: "She says uitwaaien is a popular activity where she lives—one believed to have important psy…

FWIW, N=1: I'm Dutch and don't recall the word "uitwaaien" being commonly used like this throughout society. It's only used in informal settings, e.g. between friends/family/colleague (AFAIK), and has little to no meaning outside specific contexts. It is, for instance, also used when joshing a person (with either teaseful or unpleasant intent) by proposing they should leave (the room or building): the phrase "ga jij maar even uitwaaien" means "(you should) go outside". When a cyclist informs a partner/friend/colleague about their intent to leave for (outdoor) cycling by saying "ik ga even uitwaaien". Hence I too am a bit surprised about this article.

Re: A Simple Dutch Cure for Stress

#59

Post by miken123 »

Fnoord wrote: post #48
stevesimmons wrote: post #9

Nonsense! The actual Dutch cure for stress is to claim you have "burnout" (they use the English word), and then take 6 months off work while being paid 80% of your salary. Honestly, after working for 6 years in the Netherlands, I don't know of another country that has such good working conditions [1], while having so many people in low stress professional jobs taking time off for burnout. There seems zero social or p…

> Nonsense! The actual Dutch cure for stress is to claim you have "burnout" (they use the English word), and then take 6 months off work while being paid 80% of your salary. Which does not work very well if you don't earn much. Expats who come to The Netherlands generally earn a lot. If you earn a lot, you'll easier work hard. It is much easier, as your downtime (leisure time) involves less stress. The whole system w…

> Expats who come to The Netherlands generally earn a lot.

Not in the last place because they are highly subsidized by not having to pay any taxes over 30% of their salary. In return for that, they post not very insightful comments like this on HN.

Mocking people's mental issues in public literally costs lives. Hope the thread starter realizes that somewhere.

Re: A Simple Dutch Cure for Stress

#60

Post by stevesimmons »

miken123 wrote: post #59
Fnoord wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nonsense! The actual Dutch cure for stress is to claim you have "burnout" (they use the English word), and then take 6 months off work while being paid 80% of your salary. Which does not work very well if you don't earn much. Expats who come to The Netherlands generally earn a lot. If you earn a lot, you'll easier work hard. It is much easier, as your downtime (leisure time) involves less stress. The whole system w…

> Expats who come to The Netherlands generally earn a lot. Not in the last place because they are highly subsidized by not having to pay any taxes over 30% of their salary. In return for that, they post not very insightful comments like this on HN. Mocking people's mental issues in public literally costs lives. Hope the thread starter realizes that somewhere.

You suggest I lack perspective.

I worked in the Netherlands for 6 years as a start-up founder, as a management consultant to Dutch companies and the Dutch subsidiaries of international companies, and was on the management team of a business unit of one of the big Dutch banks during a major takeover.

I can compare that to my working experience in Australia, UK, and the US. I have also worked in France and New Zealand.

I love the Dutch way of life (it is the closest I have found in Europe to my native Australia) and I am nearly fluent in their language.

My partner, who is native Dutch, also had time off for burnout. In his case, following bullying by a partner at a top-tier US law firm.

So I understand the context, understand very well that some people have genuine reasons for stepping back from work, and also understand that accepting burnout too readily gives some people an easy way to simply have a paid holiday.

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