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How to Build an Income Sharing Agreement Product

moderntreasury.com

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Re: How to Build an Income Sharing Agreement Product

#51
post #31

The biggest downside to the rise of ISAs is the decline of the humanities. There are some majors where the cost of educating the student is simply more than the school would earn in a lifetime of work, but they still have value to society. We would need some way to account for that in a world where ISAs fund all education. How do we incentive schools/lenders to fund people who want to study art and literature? Or sho…

Your comment reminded me of this article from a few weeks back: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/business/liberal-arts-ste...

STEM careers are and likely always will be a solid choice. But liberal arts aren't as bad as pop culture would make them out to be.

Re: How to Build an Income Sharing Agreement Product

#52
post #31

The biggest downside to the rise of ISAs is the decline of the humanities. There are some majors where the cost of educating the student is simply more than the school would earn in a lifetime of work, but they still have value to society. We would need some way to account for that in a world where ISAs fund all education. How do we incentive schools/lenders to fund people who want to study art and literature? Or sho…

You incentivize this by attacking the problem directly - which is to realize that the cost of education is not rising due to scarcity, its rising because of misguided administrative practices and budget allocations. Quality educational materials are certainly not more scarce today than they were 50 years ago, or somehow astronomically more expensive today. Quality educators are not astronomically expensive and costin…

There is, however, quite a bit more demand for college degrees today than 50 years ago.

Re: How to Build an Income Sharing Agreement Product

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly default and a lifetime of ruined credit is the better option.

I'm saying that bankruptcy at 22 or however young is the much better option. You get it discharged before 30, and so it doesn't even impact the terms you get if you're trying to buy a house for a lot of people. If your options are bad credit for 7 years in your 20's, or 250k in debt, then everyone is going to choose the bad credit every time.

maybe that's how it should be. Then kids wont get approved for 250k loans due to the risk and colleges will have to either ask for more money upfront (good luck), expect less students (not good for funding), or lower tuition.

Re: How to Build an Income Sharing Agreement Product

#54
post #3
post #2

Is it just me or does it seem like we're now one step closer to turning people into companies with shares that can be bought and sold? It feels like a small step from ISAs for education funding to ISAs for all kinds of funding instead of traditional loan agreements and at that point you might as well sell shares of yourself to the highest bidder so they can trade your future income on a secondary market. (Note this i…

Which leads us back closer to the ugly reality of people owning other people. ISA used to stand for Indentured Servitude Agreement. (Not saying Incoming Sharing Agreements's are bad, we just have to be careful...)

Finally someone said it. Thank you.

Re: How to Build an Income Sharing Agreement Product

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with you, but I'll note that the non-dischargeable terms of medical and student loan debt in the USA essentially do that already, with the added caveat of not even incentivizing the note holder to get the borrower on their feet. Is this no better than that? I think it's moving in the right direction. It's capped, and while there's still the potential structural issue of middleman taking an unfairly s…

>I don't disagree with you, but I'll note that the non-dischargeable terms of medical and student loan debt in the USA essentially do that already As a preliminary matter this is false...student loans are dischargable in bankruptcy, they are just treated differently than other debt. However, there is a reason everyone thinks student loans aren't dischargable and the myth persists... >the incentive structure of "we do…

Regarding student loans, yes, you are technically correct that they are dischargable in bankruptcy. However, the standard for federal student loans is that the borrower must be in a situation where there’s literally no hope of ever paying them back in order to qualify. This makes them _de facto_ nondischargable.

Private loans, IIRC, are dischargable with a lower standard, but it escapes me what the standard actually is.

Re: How to Build an Income Sharing Agreement Product

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't disagree with you, but I'll note that the non-dischargeable terms of medical and student loan debt in the USA essentially do that already As a preliminary matter this is false...student loans are dischargable in bankruptcy, they are just treated differently than other debt. However, there is a reason everyone thinks student loans aren't dischargable and the myth persists... >the incentive structure of "we do…

Student loan forgiveness would be great, as would be free tuition, but do you mean on a federal level? I'd love to see such a policy come to fruition.

Vote for Bernie if you want these things to happen. We can literally discharge all existing student debt by rolling back Trump’s ridiculous tax cuts for the wealthy. Tuition can be funded the same way going forward.

Re: How to Build an Income Sharing Agreement Product

#58
post #2

Is it just me or does it seem like we're now one step closer to turning people into companies with shares that can be bought and sold? It feels like a small step from ISAs for education funding to ISAs for all kinds of funding instead of traditional loan agreements and at that point you might as well sell shares of yourself to the highest bidder so they can trade your future income on a secondary market. (Note this i…

This article doesn't really go into it, but the impetus from what I gather is to try to find a viable alternative to the current system that balances practical realities with various ideals or goals.

Historically, college was an upper class pursuit because the upper classes could afford it. You introduce student loans and then instruments to make them more easily accessible to anyone, you end up with the current debacle.

Part of the cause of the current debacle is the fact that it takes more than the right degree to establish a sufficient income to make traditional student loans make sense. You also need job hunting skills, availability of good paying jobs and a personal situation conducive to working full-time. This means no health crises, unexpected pregnancies or other family problems imposing on your time.

What we've learned is that the bet involved in the current student loan process is a bet that still leaves a lot of lower class people in a situation where college is a bad bet that may just deepen their financial problems and de facto keep them trapped in poverty.

I don't know if this solution is the right solution, but I do think the goals and ideas driving these experiments are healthy impetuses. We need to continue to try to find societal patterns and practices that help lower income people have the opportunity to rise. It's better for society overall.

The tendency for the principle of "them that has, gets" to deepen class divides is one that needs constant push back. Otherwise, it foments bloody revolution.

We already have memes like "Eat the rich" which point to deep resentment and bitterness of the "peasant" classes. You would have to be a fool to think that's not anything to be concerned about.

Re: How to Build an Income Sharing Agreement Product

#59

It used to be society wanted people to have an education and that people with degrees would get higher paying jobs which resulted in a net benefit to society through higher taxes. Now education is just looked at as a way to in debt young people for the rest of their lives. Because 1M people default on their student loans every year and the bubble is on the verge of popping, the parasites are looking to own 10% of eve…

At first you mention how higher education doesn't get you a good job anymore, but then you mention support for a candidate who will make college free. Don't you see the contradiction here? The reason college graduates have difficulty finding good jobs compared to the past is because so many people have a degree. Even if you forgive all of the student loans and make college free, people still won't find jobs based on…

That’s still better than the present, where college still doesn’t really get you anywhere, except in a mountain of debt.

Re: How to Build an Income Sharing Agreement Product

#60
post #27

How gross. Seems like a poorly thought out product -- isn't my incentive here as a borrower to avoid making documentable income?

Or setup a contracting corporation, accumulate your consulting income in the corporation. Have a home office. Pay yourself as little as possible to cover living expenses during the 5 year period and accumulate all the capital in your corporation. Pay your 10% on that small amount. Cash out the corporation afterwards, possibly over several years to lower tax burden.

I have a feeling that would be a breach of contract due to fraud. I also think that since you were able to come up with it, other smart people would be, too, and some of them would be people drafting these income share agreements.
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