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Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

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Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#51
post #8

Not to be a philistine about new technology: but somehow I think this would make people in the air and in the ground less safe. It's probably like having a parachute on the plane: just a great marketing sales point.

A Cessna pilot and a Cirrus pilot walk into a bar. Bartender says what will you have. Cessna pilot orders a Jack and Coke. Cirrus pilot pulls his chute.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#52

This is a seriously impressive bit of software engineering. It seems as simple as "push a button" to the layman but what happens when: There is a thunderstorm between the airport and the runway The nearest runway is closed due to a blizzard There is a mountain between the normal 3-degree glide-slope and the runway, an "offset approach" There is a 40-knot crosswind You have an engine out That's just a few, I'm a comme…

In the case of the mountain, the avionics have a terrain database built in, so it can follow an LPV WAAS approach from a fix above the terrain.

I don't know if this can deal with the engine out, but in theory there isn't any reason it couldn't. There is an IPad app called "Xavion". With an engine out, Xavion will calculate an approach for you follow to a suitable airport, based on the aircraft's best glide speed + required runway length. Interestingly it doesn't use the published best glide speed and stopping distances, the app uses your flight history to figure out the aircraft's actual best glide and stopping distance.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#53

This is a seriously impressive bit of software engineering. It seems as simple as "push a button" to the layman but what happens when: There is a thunderstorm between the airport and the runway The nearest runway is closed due to a blizzard There is a mountain between the normal 3-degree glide-slope and the runway, an "offset approach" There is a 40-knot crosswind You have an engine out That's just a few, I'm a comme…

Question: how close are we to totally self-flying planes? I feel like we could easily get there before we got self-driving cars, if we wanted to.

Would the costs for short hops be comparable to a commercial airplane ticket? Because it would be awesome to charter small flights from an app to jump to a nearby city.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#55

The tech is still interesting, even if similar things that are used even in non-emergency scenarios have existed in large jets for a few decades. The one thing I don't understand is if it always just relies on WAAS and GPS no matter what, or, if depending on the runway it chooses to land, it may use something like an ILS.

I ran across a report somewhere that more airports (in the US) now have RNAV approaches than ILS ones. ILS equipment isn't cheap, and so many places don't have it. But a lot of folks now have GPS, especially because of the ADS mandate, and so while most probably aren't IFR-rated, I'm guessing if you're flying a turboprop or Cirrus jet, they probably are.

I have a Garmin 530 and it's IFR rated, most of the 430s are too and relatively common in single engine planes. The ADS mandate was more for transponders.

It does seem like a lot of airports have RNAV only and if they have an ILS they also have an RNAV.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#56
post #8

Not to be a philistine about new technology: but somehow I think this would make people in the air and in the ground less safe. It's probably like having a parachute on the plane: just a great marketing sales point.

If this system doesn't alert the outside world that it's been used more than a few intoxicated people are gonna use it to land at uncontrolled airports. Just get close and press the magic button.

Net safety will probably increase because most people will never have that use case though.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#57

This is a seriously impressive bit of software engineering. It seems as simple as "push a button" to the layman but what happens when: There is a thunderstorm between the airport and the runway The nearest runway is closed due to a blizzard There is a mountain between the normal 3-degree glide-slope and the runway, an "offset approach" There is a 40-knot crosswind You have an engine out That's just a few, I'm a comme…

Question: how close are we to totally self-flying planes? I feel like we could easily get there before we got self-driving cars, if we wanted to. Would the costs for short hops be comparable to a commercial airplane ticket? Because it would be awesome to charter small flights from an app to jump to a nearby city.

There's been discussions for years on whether or not the level of automation in modern aircraft causes pilot training to lapse due to misuse. Self-driving planes are much easier than self-driving cars because there is empty space on all sides of the plane pretty much at all times. Autopilot is already generally speaking "a thing", with the exception of takeoff and landing.

Bear in mind even in takeoff and landing scenarios, unlike a public roadway, the airplane has pretty exclusive use of the runway as well.

Pilots are very unlikely the primary cost of aircraft trips. Things like jet fuel are probably much more of the cost driver.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#58

This is a seriously impressive bit of software engineering. It seems as simple as "push a button" to the layman but what happens when: There is a thunderstorm between the airport and the runway The nearest runway is closed due to a blizzard There is a mountain between the normal 3-degree glide-slope and the runway, an "offset approach" There is a 40-knot crosswind You have an engine out That's just a few, I'm a comme…

Question: how close are we to totally self-flying planes? I feel like we could easily get there before we got self-driving cars, if we wanted to. Would the costs for short hops be comparable to a commercial airplane ticket? Because it would be awesome to charter small flights from an app to jump to a nearby city.

>I feel like we could easily get there before we got self-driving cars, if we wanted to.

The environment has shown quite clearly that we don't want to. We'd probably already have it if we did.

The safety design of aviation relies on having multiple highly competent people in the loop on every flight and exercising their judgement on dozens of things. And that's for the best-case scenario, they also have to be capable of choosing and executing fallback plans when part of the overall system (the plane, air traffic, radio navigation, flying conditions, ground conditions, etc...) degrades or enters an unexpected state.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#59

This is a seriously impressive bit of software engineering. It seems as simple as "push a button" to the layman but what happens when: There is a thunderstorm between the airport and the runway The nearest runway is closed due to a blizzard There is a mountain between the normal 3-degree glide-slope and the runway, an "offset approach" There is a 40-knot crosswind You have an engine out That's just a few, I'm a comme…

Question: how close are we to totally self-flying planes? I feel like we could easily get there before we got self-driving cars, if we wanted to. Would the costs for short hops be comparable to a commercial airplane ticket? Because it would be awesome to charter small flights from an app to jump to a nearby city.

Engine failure on takeoff is tricky to deal with. See Sullenberger landing on the Hudson for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#60
post #42

This is a seriously impressive bit of software engineering. It seems as simple as "push a button" to the layman but what happens when: There is a thunderstorm between the airport and the runway The nearest runway is closed due to a blizzard There is a mountain between the normal 3-degree glide-slope and the runway, an "offset approach" There is a 40-knot crosswind You have an engine out That's just a few, I'm a comme…

> During all phases of flight it communicates with passengers and appropriate air traffic control facilities regarding the new flight plan route and estimated time until landing. Which would suggest that if you need to be vectored to a runway, the aircraft can negotiate that with ATC automatically (and perhaps ATC can advise which is the most appropriate diversion?) This in the situation where the pilot is incapacita…

> Which would suggest that if you need to be vectored to a runway, the aircraft can negotiate that with ATC automatically (and perhaps ATC can advise which is the most appropriate diversion?)

I strongly suspect it just announces itself.

"N123FOO DECLARING EMERGENCY; PILOT INCAPACITATED, AUTOLAND ENGAGED; CLEAR RUNWAY 21L; 12 MILES OUT" sort of stuff.

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