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It’s the End of California as We Know It

nytimes.com

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Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#51

Post by WheelsAtLarge »

ggm wrote: post #3
WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #2

As much as I want to say that Farhad is wrong, I can't. He is right. We can't continue to live the way we have. We are seeing the results of kicking the can, also known as the fix, down the road. We hope that things will get fixed eventually but not now. We feel that somehow it will be easier to fix by the next generation. Unfortunately, it only gets harder. We'll just have to suffer more when the fix is finally made…

Fixes which have winners and losers become lost in electoral arithmetic. An example of this struck me some years ago when a friend who lived in Louden County (W. Virginia) said they were subject to frequent power outages which caused catastrophic loss of the goods in the freezer, but the local authority kept losing the vote for increased local taxes which would pay for fixes to the electricity distribution issues: Pe…

True, we seem to want everything but aren't willing to pay for it.

This situation is similar to the country going to war. Where the political leaders are the ones that must convince the population that we must act or lose the war and our way of life. It really does come down to leadership.

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#52

Post by ngold »

paulbaumgart wrote: post #9
davidscolgan wrote: post #5

I'm a freelance web developer from rural Indiana and want to move somewhere in the US I can at least possibly stay for a decade or more. Does anyone recommend a city/state that will survive the climate apocalypse, that is well managed, and/or that is doing everything the author of this article is saying California isn't doing? I've had a hard time figuring out where to live since I don't have to be anywhere in partic…

Storrs, CT, according to Slate: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2005/09/where-to-hide-fr...

Fun article, but I would be curious if that has changed after 15 years from the date of the article.

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#53

Post by fzzzy »

baggy_trough wrote: post #4
WheelsAtLarge wrote: post #2

As much as I want to say that Farhad is wrong, I can't. He is right. We can't continue to live the way we have. We are seeing the results of kicking the can, also known as the fix, down the road. We hope that things will get fixed eventually but not now. We feel that somehow it will be easier to fix by the next generation. Unfortunately, it only gets harder. We'll just have to suffer more when the fix is finally made…

Do we even agree what the fix is?

Underground power lines

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#54

Post by vsskanth »

davidscolgan wrote: post #5

I'm a freelance web developer from rural Indiana and want to move somewhere in the US I can at least possibly stay for a decade or more. Does anyone recommend a city/state that will survive the climate apocalypse, that is well managed, and/or that is doing everything the author of this article is saying California isn't doing? I've had a hard time figuring out where to live since I don't have to be anywhere in partic…

NC is affordable.

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#55

Post by mobilefriendly »

Animats wrote: post #15
baggy_trough wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we even agree what the fix is?

A lot of tree trimming and removal. Lots of heavy equipment. Firebreaks a mile wide. More full-time Cal Fire people and equipment. Recycled 747s as water tankers (there's already one.) More underground power lines. Not really that hard.

No, the solution is returning to the natural regular burns that are part of the ecosystem in California. Zero tolerance fire-fighting is the main issue at hand, as it builds up kindling to infernos.

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#56

Post by spking »

tehlike wrote: post #11

Sometimes i wonder... Washington doesnt have the income tax, but it feels much better there. Am i imagining this?

It's definitely better here in WA in many ways. We left CA last summer after 15 years, and I would never go back.

That said, I've heard that the biggest issue in this state is old infrastructure and buildings that would basically disintegrate in the next big earthquake. Seismic retrofitting wasn't a thing here until pretty recently.

I've been reading a book about the Cascadia fault that is fascinating and terrifying:

https://www.amazon.com/Full-Rip-9-0-Earthquake-Pacific-North...

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#57

Post by headcanon »

sysbin wrote: post #42
headcanon wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, Detroit! Michigan is relatively insulated from climate change, is on the up economically speaking, reasonable property values, and a decent tech scene. Access to concerts and a thriving art scene. Plus you'd be close to home. The worst thing we have is the winters.

lmfao Michigan is pretty bottom of the list when it comes to the states of the USA.

Then you're clearly misinformed. We're basically like Brooklyn but cheaper.

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#58

Post by Ididntdothis »

roenxi wrote: post #49
Ididntdothis wrote: post #6

Somehow I feel this is not only a California problem but the whole US. The country seems to be incapable of or unwilling to address fundamental problems. Instead you are getting endless political fights while infrastructure is falling apart. The contrasts in Silicon Valley and LA are extreme. You have some of the richest people in the world living in beautiful mansions with cities around them full of homeless people,…

What fundamental problems? Compared to the majority of human civilisations and most of human history the US is a utopia. It isn't perfect, but the people claiming they are 'trying to to fix fundamental problems' are potentially more of a threat than the problems themselves. But predicting the end of times is fun and I'll throw in a take. The US as a nation is fabulously wealthy. That obscures the importance of wealth…

Would you not call the health care situation a fundamental problem? A large portion of society is at constant risk of financial ruin if they have a serious illness, a lot of of people stay in their jobs mainly to keep their insurance which reduces entrepreneurial activity and a lot of people can’t afford any health care. I would call that a problem that other countries already have solved.

I don’t like it when people are told how good they have it compared to other countries or people in the past. It sounds very condescending. This line is also never used to tell wealthy executives or shareholders how good they have it and they should maybe stop trying to concentrate wealth on themselves. Only the little guy gets to hear this.

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#59

Post by chrisweekly »

lacker wrote: post #19
jdhn wrote: post #8

To paraphrase James Carville, "It's the people, stupid". It seems like there's a lot of Californians who talk about sustainability, but then turn right around and vote in people who continue to promote suburban sprawl, single family houses, zoning that doesn't promote density, and lack of investment in public transportation.

I think part of this is national politics pushing out state politics. Every statewide California race recently has felt like a foregone conclusion. Either the Democrat beats the Republican by a huge margin, or one Democrat beats another Democrat while the two agree on all policies. California just doesn’t have the one-party-against-another politics that make democracy work.

"the one-party-against-another politics that make democracy work"

Where have you seen this happening in practice?

A political science professor first showed me 25 years ago something I still see in US national politics: a "winner-take-all" voting system that creates a polarizing dynamic, typically resulting in a roughly 51:49 split -- with the potential for radically different outcomes hinging on tiny pockets of voters.

Also, both parties are institutionally corrupted by the dominance of money (cf Lessig on "Fix Congress First", highlighting campaign finance as a fundamental threat to democracy).

But only one of the parties is exhibiting blatant, explicit, direct opposition to the principles of democracy (eg voter suppression, rule of law, etc) from the highest level on down.

The degree to which state politics are tied to the characteristics of the national party makes it difficult for powerful governors or even mayors to deviate from party lines.

Don't get me wrong; the idea of a free marketplace of ideas and the positive value of principled opposition are things I'm sure we'd agree on. But that's not what we have. Wish I knew how to fix it.

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#60

Post by gduffy »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #48
gduffy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense, but your thinking here is actually a bigger part of the problem. There is nothing fundamentally unsustainable about suburbs, single family homes, low density, or cars. 50% of the USA is totally uninhabited, and it is possible today to build a totally off-grid and sustainable single family home / suburb in the majority of it. You can even capture carbon in concrete. Don't prescribe solutions just because y…

> P.S. most of the $2 trillion real estate market in the Bay Area where I have lived for 12 years exists precisely because our politicians DON'T promote further development, sustainable or otherwise. Most of what's here is decaying, old, unsustainable, whether it is high or low density, and nobody can afford to improve it because all the tradespeople got priced out and left years ago. While I think the rest of your r…

The first part of the response is to the parent comment, not the article.

That said, intelligent legislation to encourage all types of housing and development (with externalities like carbon priced in as taxes, not government prescribed solutions to mitigate them) would go a long way to bringing back affordability.

The solution in the interim is to vote with your dollars and feet, if you can. And really think about it if your answer is "I can't". Most of the time, that's not really true.

I'm leaving next month. Bye California and your awful policies that literally burn us to death at worst, and make us poorer and stingier zero-sum competitors at best. And for those of you who say "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" ... check in with me in 10 years and let's compare stories! <3

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