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If You Build It, the Dutch Will Pedal (2017)

nytimes.com

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Re: If You Build It, the Dutch Will Pedal (2017)

#51

Post by Steltek »

perfunctory wrote: post #8
bluetomcat wrote: post #5

In an alienated society where everyone lives in his own bubble, biking and not having a car is an easy proposition. No need to drive your sick parents to the hospital, no need to help a friend with moving the furniture, putting your child on the backseat of a bike on a rainy day is not frowned upon. Almost every aspect of social life is handled by a company in the private sector or by a public institution. The majori…

> putting your child on the backseat of a bike on a rainy day is not frowned upon This is the best thing you can do for your child.

My kids' only complaint about biking in the rain (or snow) is that we don't stop at the playground on the way. They're in normal exposed bike seats as well, albeit wearing clothes appropriate for the weather, so they're not even in a trailer or those fancy rain canopies that you see on box bikes.

Re: If You Build It, the Dutch Will Pedal (2017)

#52

Post by Steltek »

bluetomcat wrote: post #5

In an alienated society where everyone lives in his own bubble, biking and not having a car is an easy proposition. No need to drive your sick parents to the hospital, no need to help a friend with moving the furniture, putting your child on the backseat of a bike on a rainy day is not frowned upon. Almost every aspect of social life is handled by a company in the private sector or by a public institution. The majori…

On the contrary, cars are the vastly more alienating vehicle. You're in a sound dampened box closed off from every single human being around you. You can't even quickly pull over to chat if you spot a neighbor because the thing is way too big for that.

When I see neighbors driving a car, the most interaction I get is a wave - if they see me at all. However if I'm biking or walking, I will absolutely stop and chat because it's completely natural and human to do that.

Re: If You Build It, the Dutch Will Pedal (2017)

#53

Post by pletnes »

freefal wrote: post #6

As someone who bikes to work most days and thinks cycling infrastructure like this is great, what do the people profiled in this article do when it rains?

I bike in rain, fog, sleet, snow, and -20C. Get wool underwear and a raincoat + pants. It’s a habit, so I just get up in the morning and do it.

Oh, and I have a child seat and a trailer, so I bring all 3 kids to kindergarden, too. I did get an electric bike to go with the 3. child though.

If someone thinks I’m a die hard environmentalist, idealist or nut job: the bike is cheap and the commute is faster as I don’t have to wait for other cars, the bus to come, etc.

It’s just the best solution for me, hands down, on all fronts.

Re: If You Build It, the Dutch Will Pedal (2017)

#54

Post by pletnes »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #27
freefal wrote: post #6

As someone who bikes to work most days and thinks cycling infrastructure like this is great, what do the people profiled in this article do when it rains?

Rain? I'd be more worried about snow. Looking at climate data just on Wikipedia, the Netherlands gets about the same number of 'snowy' days as Denver and it gets more total precipitation. It's winter average temperatures are also a tad lower which really makes me wonder what they do when there is snow & ice on the streets. I'd certainly wouldn't want to be riding my bike in Denver today (the front range got >1ft of s…

Get winter tires with spikes. Work great on snow.

Re: If You Build It, the Dutch Will Pedal (2017)

#55

Post by sAbakumoff »

freefal wrote: post #6

As someone who bikes to work most days and thinks cycling infrastructure like this is great, what do the people profiled in this article do when it rains?

let's face it - it basically rains every other day and it never stops traffic on bycicle lanes.

Re: If You Build It, the Dutch Will Pedal (2017)

#56

Post by hannasanarion »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #31
huseyinkeles wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Amsterdam, I have my winter gear, water-proof shoes, pant cover etc. I never stopped cycling to work during the winter, even if it was snowing :) my commute is only 8 minutes though. I hate wind more than rain and snow tbh.

> my commute is only 8 minutes though I bet that's the secret. I just commented comparing the Netherland's climate to Denver and while they are comparable at the end of the day it seem it must be the commute distance that really makes it work in Amsterdam. In this case, you're commute is about as long as it takes me to walk to work after I park my car .

You can easily have a commute that short in Denver if it's important to you. Mine is just fifteen minutes on foot from Uptown to CBD, too short for even a bike to be worth the effort most days. It's probably one of the most bike-commute-friendly cities in America.

Re: If You Build It, the Dutch Will Pedal (2017)

#58

Post by hannasanarion »

gok wrote: post #19

> “These old cities weren’t made for cars,” Mr. Wagenbuur said. Kind of the key issue with applying this to new, post-car cities, unfortunately.

Which largely don't exist. With the exception of like, Phoenix and greater Los Angeles, US cities were also not designed for cars.

Even Western cities that are famous for sprawl like Denver and Houston, their streets were laid down in their modern form in the 1870s, decades before Karl Benz first had the idea of attaching a motor to a wagon.

Cars are recent invaders to our cities, and retrofits were made to accommodate them (thanks in part to massive lobbying from auto makers and hostile takeovers and subsequent shutdowns of private mass transit). There is almost no such thing as a "city designed for cars"

Re: If You Build It, the Dutch Will Pedal (2017)

#60

Post by jandeboevrie »

bluetomcat wrote: post #48
hb0ss wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain to me please why we, the Dutch, are an alienated society? We, just like most, still have to help our friends and family, move furniture and so on. Most families still own a car for this purpose, but a lot of the day to day activities can be done without a car. Saving the environment and your wallet. Edit: spelling

It's the general level of brashness and inconsideration that astounds people from other nationalities. Silly offensive jokes expressed in the loudest way possible, not caring about the reaction of others, etc. These things lead to alienation naturally. Anecdata: a group of 10-12 Dutch tourists have gathered on a central table in a dinner bar, all laughing as loud as possible without ever considering a mom with a slee…

Don't take a baby to a dinner bar then? Or just stand up and talk to the people, ask them to be a bit less noisyer. How would they know otherwise?
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