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OpenBSD 6.6

openbsd.org

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Re: OpenBSD 6.6

#51

Post by floatboth »

brynet wrote: post #36
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know what sparked the change that uprooted gcc's "dominance"? I know the GNU libc added a lot of "opinionated" pieces, but I thought that was mainly opt-in. I'm curious why gcc "lost its crown" and clang gained all of the attention. Did clang derive from gcc?

I don't follow, I'm sorry. OpenBSD has never used GNU libc. The BSD projects have long developed their own C libraries. The clang compiler is a part of the LLVM collection, it is not derived from gcc at all. As for GCC, The GNU project changed the license for their compiler sometime after the 4.2.1 release to the GPLv3. Meanwhile, up until the Clang 9.0.0 release, Clang was developed under a permissive license (NCSA)…

How is Apache non-permissive? It deals with more things (like patents) and it's a bit complex, but it's not viral I'm pretty sure.

Re: OpenBSD 6.6

#53

Post by cik »

messe wrote: post #28
cik wrote: post #26

I still desperately want docker support. I know I can bhive and friends - but native docker support is critical to my every day, unfortunately. Heck, I'll take super decayed docker support!

> bhive bhyve is FreeBSD, not OpenBSD. OpenBSD has its own native hypervisor "vmm".

Thank you, I stand corrected - and can't spell bhyve today apparently :(.

Re: OpenBSD 6.6

#54

Post by floatboth »

gautamcgoel wrote: post #46

Can OpenBSD run Sway? Or is that only supported on FreeBSD/Linux?

It can't really (other than inside an x11 window maybe), not in its current state. I've heard that someone was working on some Wayland porting efforts, but idk about the state of that.

Looks like OpenBSD has a fairly up to date kms/drm stack now, but you also need:

- to have epoll - https://github.com/jiixyj/epoll-shim might just work

- to expose input devices from the kernel as evdev devices (good idea) or to implement support for your legacy protocol in wlroots / in other places for other compositors (terrible idea)

- to have a device enumeration and hotplug system and either have it pretending it's udev (as we do with https://github.com/FreeBSDDesktop/libudev-devd) or implement support for it in wlroots and everywhere

- direct session glue code at least e.g. https://github.com/swaywm/wlroots/blob/master/backend/sessio...

- but ideally, a working session manager that supports acquiring drm+evdev devices over d-bus e.g. https://github.com/ConsoleKit2/ConsoleKit2/pull/116 && https://github.com/swaywm/wlroots/pull/1467

Re: OpenBSD 6.6

#55

Post by oil25 »

floatboth wrote: post #48
oil25 wrote: post #25

I've really been enjoying using OpenBSD full time, both on my desktop (AMD Ryzen build) as well as laptops (Lenovo X230, X1 Carbon). Everything literally "just works", the documentation is impeccable, and I love being able to install a new kernel and base system with one simple command ("sysupgrade"). About the only thing I still use Linux for is a browser with U2F support and Bluetooth - both are disabled in OpenBSD…

I'm not sure why U2F would be "disabled for security". I guess it's just that nobody has implemented all the required things. For the USB tokens, you need userspace USB HID access and hotplug notifications. I did that in Firefox for FreeBSD :)

When I asked in IRC, I was told U2F was not implemented in browsers on OpenBSD because, "do you really want browsers to have full access to your USB stack?"

Re: OpenBSD 6.6

#56

Post by oil25 »

earthscienceman wrote: post #39
oil25 wrote: post #25

I've really been enjoying using OpenBSD full time, both on my desktop (AMD Ryzen build) as well as laptops (Lenovo X230, X1 Carbon). Everything literally "just works", the documentation is impeccable, and I love being able to install a new kernel and base system with one simple command ("sysupgrade"). About the only thing I still use Linux for is a browser with U2F support and Bluetooth - both are disabled in OpenBSD…

This comment is really interesting to me. What wifi chip is in your X1 carbon? I would love to try a BSD on my t480s. What windowing system are you using?

Either xfce or dwm. Here's a great guide to OpenBSD on a 5th generation X1 carbon: https://jcs.org/2017/09/01/thinkpad_x1c

Re: OpenBSD 6.6

#57

Post by dchest »

messe wrote: post #27
oil25 wrote: post #25

I've really been enjoying using OpenBSD full time, both on my desktop (AMD Ryzen build) as well as laptops (Lenovo X230, X1 Carbon). Everything literally "just works", the documentation is impeccable, and I love being able to install a new kernel and base system with one simple command ("sysupgrade"). About the only thing I still use Linux for is a browser with U2F support and Bluetooth - both are disabled in OpenBSD…

> Bluetooth [is] disabled in OpenBSD for security A clarification on that point: OpenBSD's bluetooth stack was unmaintained and removed due to code rot; it's not that bluetooth as a protocol is inherently insecure.

Here's a list of Bluetooth security problems according to NIST: https://twitter.com/dchest/status/952981861080461312 (full PDF: https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/Legacy/SP/nistspecialpubli...)

Re: OpenBSD 6.6

#58

Post by floatboth »

> ssh-keygen(1): add an experimental lightweight signature and verification ability. Signatures may be made using regular ssh keys held on disk or stored in a ssh-agent and verified against an authorized_keys-like list of allowed keys. Signatures embed a namespace that prevents confusion and attacks between different usage domains (e.g. files vs email).

Nice! I hope this will eventually be used for various signature systems like for git commits.

Re: OpenBSD 6.6

#59

Post by beefhash »

oil25 wrote: post #55
floatboth wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why U2F would be "disabled for security". I guess it's just that nobody has implemented all the required things. For the USB tokens, you need userspace USB HID access and hotplug notifications. I did that in Firefox for FreeBSD :)

When I asked in IRC, I was told U2F was not implemented in browsers on OpenBSD because, "do you really want browsers to have full access to your USB stack?"

tbf, that IRC channel may not exactly be super canonical.

https://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/www/index.html?rev...

"remove freenode channel from index, it lacks any form of sensible moderation."

Re: OpenBSD 6.6

#60

Post by brynet »

floatboth wrote: post #51
brynet wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't follow, I'm sorry. OpenBSD has never used GNU libc. The BSD projects have long developed their own C libraries. The clang compiler is a part of the LLVM collection, it is not derived from gcc at all. As for GCC, The GNU project changed the license for their compiler sometime after the 4.2.1 release to the GPLv3. Meanwhile, up until the Clang 9.0.0 release, Clang was developed under a permissive license (NCSA)…

How is Apache non-permissive? It deals with more things (like patents) and it's a bit complex, but it's not viral I'm pretty sure.

The last time it came up.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21020024

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