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The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

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Re: The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

#51

Post by oh_sigh »

w-m wrote: post #29
oh_sigh wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any tunnel of appreciable size will have designed ventilation and other auxiliary systems(life support/escape, maintenance, power, etc). It isn't just a tube in the ground.

But the ventilation doesn't go to the void, it will just be blown into the same neighborhood. So unless it's filtered in the tunnel ventilation system, you still get the same fumes there.

You can have ventilation stacks that at least distribute the exhaust higher into the atmosphere, or at key points where fewer people live. I don't know specifically if they do that here though.

Re: The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

#52

Post by rayiner »

Just 850 million euros of public money to build a mile and a half long tunnel under downtown! (Under a billion euros total.) A bi-level tunnel, with separate express and local levels, and four lanes on each level.

By contrast, the SR99 tunnel in Seattle was about 1/3 longer, cost $3-4 billion, depending on how lawsuits shake out, and has half the capacity (two levels with two lanes each). The Big Dig in Boston was the same length, and cost 22 times as much.

In timely news (another post on the front page), the A2 tunnel cost only modestly more than it’s costing San Francisco to simply reconfigure Market Street to shut down through traffic.

Re: The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

#53

Post by apexalpha »

Merrill wrote: post #15
brnt wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I crossed the parky boulevard on top the other day. I had to double take because I've never driven in Maastricht, but I recognized the flats and didn't know why I would recognize them in the middle of the city I'd never been in. Until I realized I recognized them from the times the A2 went straight through! Google streetview has images taken last year and 2009, so you can see the diff yourself.

In Google satellite view, there appears to be a railway about 400 meters west which similarly divides the city. Will that be buried as well?

No it doesn't for a few reasons.

One is that most rail traffic doesn't continu 24/7. A train comes by, the crossings open again and it's anormal road for 15 minutes until the next train.

Cars just run constantly. Cars also have exhausts that blast fumes in your face.

Furthermore the rails are usually 2 or 3 tracks next to each other outside the station. That's 20 meter or so vs a whopping 50m+ for a highway.

Re: The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

#54

Post by apexalpha »

w-m wrote: post #29
oh_sigh wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any tunnel of appreciable size will have designed ventilation and other auxiliary systems(life support/escape, maintenance, power, etc). It isn't just a tube in the ground.

But the ventilation doesn't go to the void, it will just be blown into the same neighborhood. So unless it's filtered in the tunnel ventilation system, you still get the same fumes there.

But you get considerably less fumes because the traffic isn't in a constant traffic jam because of the traffic lights on the highway.

Also, the end of the tunnels are a bit more out of the town centre than the road that was dead in the middle.

Re: The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

#55

Post by MrGilbert »

There is a similar project going on in the city of Hamburg for quite some years now[1], covering the Autobahn A7, which goes from southern Germany all the way up to the Danish border, thus being a pretty important route and Germany's longest Autobahn.

Roughly 140,000 cars are crossing the city through the Autobahn per day.

[1]: (PDF, english) https://www.hamburg.de/contentblob/7896702/27d2e4d96831a306f...

Re: The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

#56

Post by BigJ1211 »

gambiting wrote: post #25
apexalpha wrote: post #2

My hometown! Cool to see it on HN. Maastricht uses to be the only traffic lights on route from Amsterdam to Paris. Yes. Traffic lights on a highway, in the middle of a city. As if the highway in the middle of a city wasn't annoyinh enough the traffic lights added some extra noise, fumes and pollution. The new tunnel has been the most magnificent change I've ever seen. And IIRC the entire project was within budget and…

>>Maastricht uses to be the only traffic lights on route from Amsterdam to Paris. Yes. Traffic lights on a highway, in the middle of a city Sounds like the beautiful little town of Bad Oeynhausen, which I came to loathe(a bit) - I used to drive several times a year from Amsterdam to Krakow(~1300km) and literally the moment you got off the ferry in Amsterdam you were on the motorway literally all the way to Krakow....…

Reminds me of Luik/Liege in Belgium just across the border form Maastricht. It's far worse there especially when you look at how poor the construction is there and how high the pollution seems to be. You can see that city has suffered immensely economically.

The journey through Maastricht over the highway generally wasn't all that bad, traffic would generally flow remarkably well. I think the primary concerns to put a tunnel in was pollution, noise and congestation.

Re: The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

#57

Post by tectec »

gield wrote: post #49
apexalpha wrote: post #2

My hometown! Cool to see it on HN. Maastricht uses to be the only traffic lights on route from Amsterdam to Paris. Yes. Traffic lights on a highway, in the middle of a city. As if the highway in the middle of a city wasn't annoyinh enough the traffic lights added some extra noise, fumes and pollution. The new tunnel has been the most magnificent change I've ever seen. And IIRC the entire project was within budget and…

>Maastricht uses to be the only traffic lights on route from Amsterdam to Paris. I know Belgian traffic can be hell but going through Maastricht on the way from Amsterdam to Paris would be quite the detour :)

According to Google Maps it's only 30 minutes longer to go through Maastricht, so it's not that far of a stretch to imagine that some people use it.

Re: The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

#58

Post by apexalpha »

tectec wrote: post #57
gield wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Maastricht uses to be the only traffic lights on route from Amsterdam to Paris. I know Belgian traffic can be hell but going through Maastricht on the way from Amsterdam to Paris would be quite the detour :)

According to Google Maps it's only 30 minutes longer to go through Maastricht, so it's not that far of a stretch to imagine that some people use it.

Exactly and if you're going to be on the ring of Antwerp, or god forbid, the ring of Brussel during rush hour... you are rushing nowhere for at least an hour.

Re: The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

#59

Post by brnt »

BigJ1211 wrote: post #56
gambiting wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Maastricht uses to be the only traffic lights on route from Amsterdam to Paris. Yes. Traffic lights on a highway, in the middle of a city Sounds like the beautiful little town of Bad Oeynhausen, which I came to loathe(a bit) - I used to drive several times a year from Amsterdam to Krakow(~1300km) and literally the moment you got off the ferry in Amsterdam you were on the motorway literally all the way to Krakow....…

Reminds me of Luik/Liege in Belgium just across the border form Maastricht. It's far worse there especially when you look at how poor the construction is there and how high the pollution seems to be. You can see that city has suffered immensely economically. The journey through Maastricht over the highway generally wasn't all that bad, traffic would generally flow remarkably well. I think the primary concerns to put…

Even though Luik has a highway without stoplights, it's narrow, winding and most of it maxes out at 60 (or was it even 40). Outside of rush hour driving through the city is actually faster.

And Cheratte...

Can't wait for a proper north-south bypass there.

Re: The A2 motorway no longer divides Maastricht

#60

Post by brnt »

gield wrote: post #49
apexalpha wrote: post #2

My hometown! Cool to see it on HN. Maastricht uses to be the only traffic lights on route from Amsterdam to Paris. Yes. Traffic lights on a highway, in the middle of a city. As if the highway in the middle of a city wasn't annoyinh enough the traffic lights added some extra noise, fumes and pollution. The new tunnel has been the most magnificent change I've ever seen. And IIRC the entire project was within budget and…

>Maastricht uses to be the only traffic lights on route from Amsterdam to Paris. I know Belgian traffic can be hell but going through Maastricht on the way from Amsterdam to Paris would be quite the detour :)

Antwerpen and Lille/Rijssel are still absolute terror (and used to be worse).

But perhaps the real reason: the road signage in Belgium and France is substandard to Dutch sentiments, and with the route through Maastricht, there are fewer wrong turns to take ;) These sentiments are so widespread, a Dutch comedian made a well known sketch about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIpgGigrV_s

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