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Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

clearerthinking.org

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Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#51

Post by starpilot »

cryptoz wrote: post #36
aeternum wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding "would you be willing" does serve a purpose, it makes it easier for the other person to say "yes" since they don't yet have to commit. This is very important in any negotiation. For example, the other person could respond with "Yes, I would if you clean the kitchen after making food".

I agree it serves a purpose; I believe it serves a purpose by adding a layer of indirection in there, making the conversation flow easier. I think it's passive aggressive, yes, but I also understand why it is done. It's not done to make it a "direct ask" though, as this process specifically makes the requests less direct as part of the strategy. The less-direct wording is both able to be seen as passive aggressive (a…

https://www.drgeorgesimon.com/passive-aggression-top-5-misus...

"Passive" means inaction, it doesn't mean indirect or sneaky. You can be actively indirect, but it still originates with an (active) action. There is no passive action, just as there is no active passivity. This doesn't mean the wording is perfect, just the passive aggressive label doesn't apply here.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#52

Post by ignoramous »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #39
ignoramous wrote: post #30

Kevin Hale, at startupschool 2019, spoke in length on How to Work Together [0]. Key points aside from non-violent communication were, everyone fights, but when you fight, stay away from these four horsemen [1]: 1. Criticism : Involves bringing in variety or unrelated issues to the discussion / argument. Focus on the one thing that needs resolution. 2. Contempt : Argumentum ad hominem. Intention to insult, making thin…

I’m feeling annoyed, because it’s important to me that ideas get credited to the person who developed them. :) But seriously, the “Four Horsemen” concept comes from marital therapist John Gottman. Highly recommend his book “The 7 Principles for Making Marriage Work”

I rewatched the lecture: Happy to report that Kevin does credit John Gottman. The parent comment originates from the notes I took.

Edit: Added references to Gottman's blog. Thanks.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#54

Post by bakul »

scottlamb wrote: post #9

I've read "Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Life" and found it helpful in personal & work communication. I _hate_ the name, though. I don't want to suggest to someone that they read about non-violent communication because that suggests they're being violent when they're not. I'd prefer almost any other name. Some better names: "observational communication", "non-judgmental communication", "empathetic communica…

It's also known as Compassionate Communication.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#55

Post by ThrustVectoring »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #48

This seems like a guide to passive aggressively manipulating others for your own gain. Am I missing something?

The number one mistake in NVC is leaving an implied threat of "and if you don't, I'll lose control and stop asking nicely" around in the social atmosphere. There's a lot of groundwork you need to lay in order to have the conversation actually be about observations, needs, and emotions. If you don't have it, NVC can often be a tool of aggression.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#56

Post by MagnumPIG »

nshm wrote: post #31

Being nice to others is not problem if you do not need anything from them. But if you want to force someone to do what he doesn't want to do, that is a problem. And being empathic doesn't always help.

That's what money is for...

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#57

Post by pfranz »

musicale wrote: post #32
mynameishere wrote: post #21

Just looking at the examples, these are "Sleazy salesman tips about how to get a person to say 'yes'". Anybody who uses this kind of language needs to be shut down, and bluntly.

They certainly struck me as strategies to coerce compliance, as might be used by annoying sales people, con artists, cult evangelists, political/charity representatives, pick-up artists, etc.. Worse, when there's any power differential (e.g your boss saying any of this stuff to you) then it sounds very unpleasant and dishonest.

I haven't read the NVC book, but I've read /about/ it. It sounds like it's a great technique for peers, but I'm very glad you brought up that it can come across condescending and manipulative when there's a power differential. Since I often hear this brought up as a management technique and in business settings I'm surprised that part isn't discussed more. Your's (and tangentially the parent) is the only comment I've seen so far mentioning it.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#58

Post by steve_adams_86 »

kazinator wrote: post #23

Unbiased evidence is violent to some people. "Don't confront me with evidence, care about how I feel !"

I know what you mean, and that can be frustrating in some situations. However, it is possible to hold your evidence over a person's feelings unnecessarily. People can be irrational at times, and knowingly so, but still want to be understood, and perhaps more so, valued enough that their irrationality is trumped by being important enough to another person.

I think NVC is a useful tool but you need to be able to go outside the bounds of the framework it provides at times.

If someone is screaming and wailing because their mother died, you would never tell them their reaction is unwarranted because all humans die eventually and 91.3% of humans have a less exaggerated response to this news. Oh, and you and your mother didn't get along very well.

There are so many variations of this example, some less exaggerated, but there needs to be wiggle room for emotional expression and responses to events and experiences in life.

I'm awful at it, warranted, but most people I've known really need this at times - if not at most times.

Re: Interested in improving your relationships? Try Nonviolent Communication

#59

Post by musicale »

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #34
musicale wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're certainly manipulative. The weasel-worded "requests" demand compliance by placing the victim in a bind: either comply, or look like a terrible friend/spouse/employee/etc..

The “victim” in this example is actually the perpetrator: they consumed someone else’s food without permission.

The victim of the verbal trap/dilemma. But you are free to use another word like "target" or "recipient" if you prefer.

Also, without full information, we don't know who is in the right. Perhaps it was in a designated communal fridge; perhaps it wasn't labeled properly; perhaps the person actually had permission; perhaps the person was facing a potentially dangerous blood sugar crash. Etc..

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