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Harold Bloom Has Died

nytimes.com

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Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#51

Post by dang »

_edo wrote: post #16
dang wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't do this here.

I understand why you don't like this comment. I don't understand why this is worth your commenting on but you're silent on the airing of somebody's dirty laundry between their death and their funeral. What this signals to the Hacker News community is disturbing to the extent that I'm not sure I want to spend any more time here.

It's off topic, unsubstantive, and inflammatory. It takes the thread in an extraneous flamebait direction, just what the site guidelines ask people not to. This seems obvious. Am I missing something?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

The question of airing dirty laundry immediately on someone's death is more complex. I agree that accusations against Bloom should not dominate discussion over the significant things he did. But they're not off topic, and the social injunction against speaking ill of the dead isn't shared by the whole community. We can argue reasonably about how to handle all of that. From my perspective, there aren't guidelines violations in those comments, but the various other things moderators do to encourage substantive discussion are applicable.

But I see no such nuance in "I feel like coming on strongly to women is something desirable now". That doesn't mean the GP was posting in bad faith, but it's the sort of post we have to moderate if we don't want the thread to burst into flames.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#52

Post by beerandt »

0_gravitas wrote: post #11
jerf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't speak ill of the dead like this. It is uncouth and crass for all sorts of reasons. It doesn't mean you need to forget or ignore it, it just means... today is not the day. More days will come.

Not OP but I've never liked the notion of "too soon" as a reason for not doing/saying things, it feels very arbitrary. And I don't know much about the person of subject but I will speak ill of anyone living or dead if they are someone worth speaking ill of.

To me, it's more about giving someone a chance to defend themselves. If you said the same thing to their face when they were alive, then fine. Continue to say it after they pass. But to all of a sudden have an opinion, or to air a grudge that you've never thought worthy of speaking about publicly before? That's cowardice.

And yes, I'm including victims who felt they had something to lose. Those are the claims someone has the greatest interest in defending themselves against.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#53

Post by CamperBob2 »

bigpumpkin wrote: post #34

Here's him reading a short section from Hart Crane's The Bridge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRY5SelxqPU " O Thou steeled Cognizance whose leap commits The agile precincts of the lark’s return; Within whose lariat sweep encinctured sing In single chrysalis the many twain,— Of stars Thou art the stitch and stallion glow And like an organ, Thou, with sound of doom— Sight, sound and flesh Thou leadest from time’s re…

Sounds like he must have made Douglas Adams's acquaintance at some point.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#54

Post by spats1990 »

Jun8 wrote: post #42

The Paris Review interview with him: https://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/2225/harold-bloom-...

unpaywalled full version: https://web.archive.org/web/20170602064548/https://theparisr...

(psst...I encourage people to subscribe for access, but most older Paris Review interviews are accessible through archive.org.)

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#56

Post by henry_bone »

If I were to read one of his books as a guide the best bits of the canon to read, which book should I read?

The main options appear to be 'Genius', 'The Western Canon' and 'How to read and why'.

I'd like to read more, and a good guide to Western literature might be helpful.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#57

Post by supernova87a »

coldtea wrote: post #15
teflodollar wrote: post #10

It's too bad to read these reports about his lecherousness, because he was without question a giant in the US world of letters.

Well, hitting on women (for men), hitting on men (for women), drinking, taking drugs, being tightwad, being lavish, being easily angered, and tons of other things, never stopped anybody from being a giant of letters or the arts, a great politician, a good scientist, a great athlete, a great actor, a great humanitarian, a great businessperson or any other thing... In fact it's probably more common in the great men and…

Is it possible that extreme greatness in certain talents comes with unavoidable flaws in others? Creativity, depression, wit, temper, outbursts, humor, affection. Would banishing some also eliminate the others?

Lots of amazing writers, poets, scientists, are terribly flawed, depressed, tortured souls. Hell, even we here on HN debate every day the ridiculous company founders and VCs whose behavior creates interesting enterprises but leads to inevitable problems later.

We seem to want saints who pique our attention, stimulate our fancy, and amuse/entertain us. But as some witty person said, living in heaven with the saints would be worse than hell.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#58

Post by pixelmonkey »

I wrote an essay about Bloom’s conception of “the Canon” back in 2003. Was probably my favorite essay I published publicly from that period.

I still go back to it from time to time, thinking especially about Bloom’s concept of “The Anxiety of Influence”. The thread I weave starts from a piece by Walker Percy, entitled “The Loss of the Creature”. That one is somewhat esoteric and underrated, but beautifully describes the conundrum of art education by “experts”, and the contrast between truly experiencing art and merely trying to “get it”.

Anyway, I archived my essay, “Questioning the Canon”, on my personal site here:

https://amontalenti.com/2012/12/29/questioning-the-canon

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#59

Post by ellius »

virgil_disgr4ce wrote: post #46
prvc wrote: post #9

We live in an era where great art has so little power that it requires defending, and that doing so is considered to be controversial. Our time is a spiritual dark age.

What on earth are you talking about?

He's referring to the current academic climate, especially in fields like literature, much of which is derogatory towards the past and "great works."

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#60

Post by SomeOldThrow »

teflodollar wrote: post #45
SomeOldThrow wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are these contradictory? He is obviously both.

I don't think they're in any way contradictory. I think he was a genuinely great critic, and that can't be taken away from him. But that doesn't mean I can't be disappointed to learn he made female graduate students uncomfortable. Similarly I fully support Handke winning the Nobel this year, but it doesn't mean I can't deplore his support of Milosevic.

I think this sense of cancel culture is overhyped. Harold Bloom’s importance will not be lessened due to his abuse (except perhaps of topical relevance). There is simply a dual importance like we both recognize.
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