Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why office workers can't sleep and why that's bad

lithub.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 76 posts

Re: Why office workers can't sleep and why that's bad

#51

Post by nucleardog »

MaximumYComb wrote: post #31
nucleardog wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can solve this globally by getting eye glasses that filter blue light as long as you're not doing any sort of colour-sensitive work. After a day or two you don't notice the colour difference anymore.

How do you personally find the balance between blue light keeping you awake verse mental stimulation keeping you awake? I don't do any math or coding in the ~2 hours before bed, as a general rule.

I got the filtered glasses mostly because of the purported benefits regarding eye strain, so I hadn't put a lot of thought into trying to compare the effects on sleep.

Definitely wouldn't discount blue light having some effect, but I'm totally on the same page as you here regarding limiting stimulation and I'd have a hard time believing anyone that claimed lighting had anything even close to the effect that other habits did.

Had trouble sleeping for years. Made my bed and bedroom a place for sleep and only sleep. When I go to bed the phone goes on do not disturb, there's no computer/TV/etc in the room at all and no clock (I can't look at a clock without thinking of all the things I have to do!). I just get into bed and lay there until I'm asleep. Some days I'll try and read a little, but I find these days that I don't make it very far at all before I'm asleep.

Haven't even had to go as far as limiting activities before bed or anything all that much. At some point my body and brain got conditioned to sleep when in bed, so it's usually a pretty painless process now.

Re: Why office workers can't sleep and why that's bad

#52

Post by La1n »

C1sc0cat wrote: post #33

Interesting however there is data going back to the 1920's about changing lighting at work (Taylor I think) that shows that the very fact of changing light levels improved output. However when the changed the lighting levels back output improved again. It looks to me this is based on poorly designed studies, the including of trigger words like "kids" "iPad" is a bit of a red flag.

I could also be the change itself and not the final state that causes it, or not?

Re: Why office workers can't sleep and why that's bad

#53

Post by digitalsushi »

bitL wrote: post #21
graeme wrote: post #6

Has anyone tested bright indoor lighting and its effect on their own sleep. I have some LED studio lights for video work by my desk all the time. I'm wondering if I should just turn them on while I work each morning. From what I can tell: 1. LEDs won't cause sunburn/skin damage 2. There's no blue light risk of them if they're not rates above a certain level of light output and you don't stare directly at them. I have…

I bought a huge 10,000 lux lamp that was supposed to emit similar wavelengths to daylight because I found myself to be a bit sleepy during winters all day long. That one managed to "wake me up" and I ended up as productive as in summer. Some people also use it to alleviate their seasonal depression (never had that). I have it illuminating my workspace behind my back. I believe our eyes have some special "wake up" rec…

for anyone interested - HL-NHB285-NP08B is a 30k lumen light for 150 dollars. it's 5000 kelvin color temperature. i parked one over my home office desk. it's like being outside at the park feeding birds, but inside. says 92 dollars per year power consumption. i dont know the terms of that calculation

tbf i know your unit of lux takes into account the distance over which the energy is dispersed and mine of lumens, does not

edit: a friend asked how to wire it. this is probably illegal in your jurisdiction but you can just lop the ends of an extension cord off, and direct wire the copper ends in and plug it into a wall outlet. you dont even need to buy wire nuts or any other accessory, other than possibly a hook, to hang the hook mount that comes with this unit. it took me like 10 minutes. this is not advice, no warranty is implied by my comment, i disavow all your actions if you do this. someone please correct my post and i will edit mine.

Re: Why office workers can't sleep and why that's bad

#54

Post by greggman2 »

MaximumYComb wrote: post #29
wrnr wrote: post #28

I've had insomnia for as long as I can remember and wish there was another culture about sleep. I saw this documentary about the Institute of Advanced Study (IAS) wherein a physicist was staying awake for 48 hours so he can focus on his work. The IAS is famous for hiring the best scientists and letting them work on whatever they want. I am not a genius like him but I wish I could use my restlessness to my advantage a…

I had medically diagnosed insomnia for a period. If your insomnia is anything like mine then you'd have a decent idea about if you're going to sleep that night or not. If it's 1am and I'm still wide awake then I'm not getting quality sleep that night. What do you have to lose by going to your PC at that time and working for 6 hours before work? You're going to be tired tomorrow anyway any attempting to sleep for anot…

I'm curious about this idea of insomnia. I'm between jobs right now which means I don't have to get up. That means for whatever reason (my genes?) I find I'm not tired until 5am, 6am often. I sleep 7 hours just fine. So the only thing about it being "insomnia" as in "unable to sleep" would be some artificial reason I have to get up in the morning. Am I making any sense? It seems like it's only insomina because someone/something is forcing you out of the schedule your body wants. Well, I don't know your body. I'm talking about mine but just saying. I'm getting my sleep just not a the times other people claim I should be getting it.

Re: Why office workers can't sleep and why that's bad

#55

Post by randcraw »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #24
bitL wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a huge 10,000 lux lamp that was supposed to emit similar wavelengths to daylight because I found myself to be a bit sleepy during winters all day long. That one managed to "wake me up" and I ended up as productive as in summer. Some people also use it to alleviate their seasonal depression (never had that). I have it illuminating my workspace behind my back. I believe our eyes have some special "wake up" rec…

Can you provide some details on that lamp, especially power consumption? It seems an interesting experiment that I would like to try.

I have one of these, but honestly haven't used it enough to assess it. It seems well made and bright enough to make a difference without being intolerable. I think it draws 14 watts.

Verilux HappyLight VT43 Luxe 10,000 Lux LED Bright White Light Therapy Lamp ($100)

https://verilux.com/products/happylight-luxe

Re: Why office workers can't sleep and why that's bad

#56

Post by RandomBacon »

imgabe wrote: post #27

The main reason why offices have gotten dimmer is that energy conservation codes limit the amount of power you can use for lighting. Most office type spaces are only allowed 0.9 - 1.1 watts per square foot compared to 3 watts per square foot in the past. Part of that reduction is also that lights are vastly more efficient, but designers are also incentivized to use as little lighting power as possible. Lighting power…

I would be looking at the regs to see how the spaces are measured and see if I could create 1" high ceilings for some spaces that are pitch black (and stack those spaces) so that I could use more lighting elsewhere.

Re: Why office workers can't sleep and why that's bad

#57

Post by sampleinajar »

greggman2 wrote: post #54
MaximumYComb wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had medically diagnosed insomnia for a period. If your insomnia is anything like mine then you'd have a decent idea about if you're going to sleep that night or not. If it's 1am and I'm still wide awake then I'm not getting quality sleep that night. What do you have to lose by going to your PC at that time and working for 6 hours before work? You're going to be tired tomorrow anyway any attempting to sleep for anot…

I'm curious about this idea of insomnia. I'm between jobs right now which means I don't have to get up. That means for whatever reason (my genes?) I find I'm not tired until 5am, 6am often. I sleep 7 hours just fine. So the only thing about it being "insomnia" as in "unable to sleep" would be some artificial reason I have to get up in the morning. Am I making any sense? It seems like it's only insomina because someon…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder

Re: Why office workers can't sleep and why that's bad

#58

Post by imgabe »

RandomBacon wrote: post #56
imgabe wrote: post #27

The main reason why offices have gotten dimmer is that energy conservation codes limit the amount of power you can use for lighting. Most office type spaces are only allowed 0.9 - 1.1 watts per square foot compared to 3 watts per square foot in the past. Part of that reduction is also that lights are vastly more efficient, but designers are also incentivized to use as little lighting power as possible. Lighting power…

I would be looking at the regs to see how the spaces are measured and see if I could create 1" high ceilings for some spaces that are pitch black (and stack those spaces) so that I could use more lighting elsewhere.

It doesn't work that way, you can't just define arbitrary spaces. They have to be actual habitable rooms, which means a minumum ceiling height if 6.5-7' in every jurisdiction I know of.

Re: Why office workers can't sleep and why that's bad

#59

Post by RugnirViking »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #23
RugnirViking wrote: post #2

The part where they spoke about various populations sleeping for around an hour longer each night in the winter is very interesting to me.

It is quite logical, the night is much longer and we used to depend on the light cycle. Also many animals hibernate in the winter, we just sleep a bit more, it is an adaptation to environmental conditions: less light, less food, movement in lower temperatures require more energy, sleep conserves energy. In my country we have a bit less than 9 hours of light in December and over 15 hours in June, we continuously adjus…

Well yes, it makes sense evolutionarily, but I don't think I had ever specifically heard someone suggest that not following such a pattern in modern times might have bad effects

Re: Why office workers can't sleep and why that's bad

#60

Post by graeme »

Tade0 wrote: post #50
graeme wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which same issues - do you mean some LEDs emit UV?

They (usually) don't, but they do have a peak at blue frequencies[0]. [0] https://i.stack.imgur.com/lkyXG.png

Yeah. I think a high CRI would be what you'd want for this purpose. Those aim to match sunlight.
Post reply on HN