Google contractors reportedly targeted homeless people for facial recognition • Hacker News Board

Re: Google contractors reportedly targeted homeless people for facial recognition

#51

Post by _jal » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 4:20 PM UTC

aantix wrote: post #32

tobib wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would happily sell anyone a picture or scan of my face for $5. But I even more happily have that chance go to someone who needs it more than myself. Would you really? My gut feeling tells me that's not the case for most people for privacy or ethical reasons. Just because those people are poor, we expect them to have lower privacy or ethical standards. The link you posted has the following example, I think you're…

I don’t think most people care about privacy all that much. Most live publicly with their faces on display for all to see and others taking it a step further, participating in Facebook alongside billions of others. It doesn’t scream facial identity being a major concern.

I don't think most people care much about carcinogens.

Most people have them in their homes, breathe them, eat them, and others take it a step further, participating in the creation of them.

It doesn't scream fear of cancer being a major concern.

Re: Google contractors reportedly targeted homeless people for facial recognition

#52

Post by username90 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 4:21 PM UTC

blub wrote: post #26

kauffj wrote: post #11

Kudos to Google's contractor for offering this opportunity to the people who need it most. I would happily sell anyone a picture or scan of my face for $5. But I would even more happily have that chance go to someone who needs it more than myself. This article also mentions that the contractor may have lied to or misled the homeless, which is deplorable. But the behavior described by the title itself is nothing objec…

$5 isn't much. Why not post here a picture and 3d scan of your face as a token of good will? It could help some start-ups that need such a face for demo purposes or other experiments.

Giving up your HN privacy is different than selling a scan of your face that anyone can already find with a simple Google search on Facebook or Linkedin.

Re: Google contractors reportedly targeted homeless people for facial recognition

#53

Post by JohnFen » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 4:21 PM UTC

mgraczyk wrote: post #9

This strikes me as the ethically best possible way to collect this data. Google is paying people who need the money for something simple and completely harmless. The main counterargument appears to be that those who sold data "didn't understand what was going on". It's hard to imagine moral convictions in which someone could consistently argue that the homeless don't understand money in exchange for photos, but it's…

> This strikes me as the ethically best possible way to collect this data.

I don't see how failing to get informed consent counts as "the ethically best possible way".

Re: Google contractors reportedly targeted homeless people for facial recognition

#54

Post by matz1 » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 4:21 PM UTC

blub wrote: post #26

kauffj wrote: post #11

Kudos to Google's contractor for offering this opportunity to the people who need it most. I would happily sell anyone a picture or scan of my face for $5. But I would even more happily have that chance go to someone who needs it more than myself. This article also mentions that the contractor may have lied to or misled the homeless, which is deplorable. But the behavior described by the title itself is nothing objec…

$5 isn't much. Why not post here a picture and 3d scan of your face as a token of good will? It could help some start-ups that need such a face for demo purposes or other experiments.

I think most people, Including me, trust google/fb more than random people on hn.

Re: Google contractors reportedly targeted homeless people for facial recognition

#55

Post by JohnFen » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 4:25 PM UTC

matz1 wrote: post #44

JohnFen wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most people actually care quite a lot. That people live their lives accepting that their faces are on display is not evidence otherwise, since there is literally no other option. Participating Facebook is also not evidence otherwise -- at most, it's evidence that people are willing to trade privacy in some circumstances (and I think even that's a bit of a stretch), but I'll bet that most Facebook users would…

Then what would you accept as proof/evidence ?

A couple of solid independent studies would go a long way.

Re: Google contractors reportedly targeted homeless people for facial recognition

#56

Post by privateSFacct » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 4:30 PM UTC

JohnFen wrote: post #45

Kylekramer wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pizza joint hired the teen, I contracted the pizza joint to get me a pizza. The teen did it a shitty way that is hard to be expected. Randstad hired the people, Google contracted Randstad to do a job. Randstad's people did it in a shitty way that is hard to expected. It's a pretty fresh analogy.

I think the analogy is a poor one, but let's run with it anyway. No, you are not responsible because the teen was not operating within the terms of the contract. You did not authorize or ask him to get stoned or run someone over.

Did google authorize (or even think) that their staff would contract with a company that would hire folks who would scan homeless people's faces in a way that was improper?

Re: Google contractors reportedly targeted homeless people for facial recognition

#57

Post by andrerm » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 4:33 PM UTC

> “They [Google contractor] said to target homeless people because they’re the least likely to say anything to the media,” the ex-staffer said. “The homeless people didn’t know what was going on at all.”

Re: Google contractors reportedly targeted homeless people for facial recognition

#58

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 4:34 PM UTC

acdc4life wrote: post #18

Why doesn’t the model trained on one race generalize to different races? That sounds inferior to human vision.

[deleted]

Re: Google contractors reportedly targeted homeless people for facial recognition

#59

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

SamBam wrote: post #10

It sounds like there were three issues: 1. The contractor targeted homeless people 2. They targeted people with darker skin 3. They may not have been forthright or truthful about what they were doing. Number 3 is clearly wrong. But I think so long as the contractors were upfront and truthful about what they were doing, I don't know if 1 or 2 are problematic. The only argument I can see for why they shouldn't pay home…

[deleted]

Re: Google contractors reportedly targeted homeless people for facial recognition

#60

Post by jasonlotito » Thu, Oct 03, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

Kylekramer wrote: post #12

xenocyon wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO an entity is ethically responsible for anything its contractor does, unless there is reasonable clarity that the contractor acted in opposition to the client's wishes. Having someone else do your dirty work doesn't make it less dirty.

If I order a pizza and the stoned teenager from the local joint runs over a pedestrian, am I ethically responsible? I didn't tell them to not hit people when getting my meat lovers to me and did say I wanted it ASAP.

Yes, if you order a pizza from a local pizza place that you know to go out of their way to hit pedestrians and break laws, you are ethically responsible.