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Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

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Re: Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

#51
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought calling it an "obscene cyber lynching" committed by "young white college graduates who live in urban California and work for evil companies" cheapened it quite severely before even getting to the latter half of the comment.

That's really the main point, though. People complain about "punching down" in comedy, but that's all this ever looks like to me. It's always somebody who works at Google, or Facebook, or Salesforce, or blah blah blah, which is something that I consider to be far, far more egregious than telling off color jokes or defending the reputation of your deceased friend. If you spy on people or send spam to make money, you'r…

You are not alone in that opinion.

Re: Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

#52
post #43

Dude has gone out of his way to make other people uncomfortable. I use singular they for my pronouns. He's so bothered by this that he goes out of his way to not only tell me I'm wrong for doing so, but to invent his own language for referring to folks who use gender neutral pronouns (which no one will understand, because it's not widely used). I would certainly question whether I was welcome at an event where he was…

You’re declaring how everyone else has to use language, but their refusal is antagonistic?

Talk about entitled.

Re: Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

#53
post #39

> He takes everything literally and doesn’t necessarily take feelings and the reactions of others into account when making statements that are outside the bounds of his expertise in free software. Whelp, then no one should be that surprised when people stop taking his feelings into account and decide they no longer want to be associated with him. Not being an asshole is a two-way street.

there's a large contingent of people on hn (in tech, in the world) that fetishize "logic" and believe it always trumps "feelings". i put both in quotes because to this contingent both of those concepts have absolutely zero relation to their actual form.

i too used to be quite fond of making completely dispassionate arguments about controversial things (race, gender, class, etc.) because i believed that the entire content of a thing was what i understood about it in my oh-so logical way. what i was missing was experience (and often context), which is not neatly captured by syllogisms and facts. e.g. ask the jews who's entitled to palestine. now ask the palestinians. there is no theorem prover that will enable you to resolve that one no matter how many historical facts you feed it because ultimately the significance of each fact is refracted through personal experience (i.e. feelings).

this was as a result of being young and arrogant. i had the luxury of dispassion because none of these things had affected me in any way - i was lacking in experience of the injustices of the world that can't be written down using a set of "objective" facts. in retrospect it's a shameful mistake to have made.

this kind of bullying with "logic" is abhorrent to me now, especially when coming from someone who abuses their "logical" authority ("i'm very logical at x so trust me when i reason about completely unrelated y"). i always do my best to fight that kind of fire with fire. i believe if you have abilities (oratory, "logical") your responsibility is to aid those that don't, that don't get the same kind of attention, room to speak, credence, that you do simply because what they've experienced can't be formalized.

Re: Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

#54
post #34

Umm.... absolutely not. These quotes (directly from his site) beg to differ: > “I am sceptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren’t voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing.” > “There is little evidence to justify the widespread assumption that willing par…

You're missing the nuance of the language as selected. "I am skeptical" clearly prefaces a desire to be made aware of actual scientific evidence, to have the citations (references to the evidence) provided. Further, you, and others who keep beating this dead horse, do not realize that it is part of a larger, ongoing, discussion in which (IIRC from prior HN threads), RMS had that skepticism resolved with knowledge by…

[deleted]

Re: Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

#55
post #10

Umm.... absolutely not. These quotes (directly from his site) beg to differ: > “I am sceptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren’t voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing.” > “There is little evidence to justify the widespread assumption that willing par…

>> Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him > Umm.... absolutely not. These quotes (directly from his site) beg to differ: Do you know him? Aren't you vilifying him? Having an unpopular opinion isn't grounds for "proper judgement" of being constantly harassed by a mob every time his name is brought up.

[deleted]

Re: Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

#56
post #20
post #6

[flagged]

Please don't post vilifications about vilifications. Even if you're right, it only makes this place strictly worse. Also, please don't turn this into a regional flamewar. We don't need any of that here either. Also, no partisan flamebait please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

This is where I get confused about the rules.

If flamebait is off limits, why aren't good-stallman / bad-stallman articles on an indefinite hiatus?

Re: Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

#57
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought calling it an "obscene cyber lynching" committed by "young white college graduates who live in urban California and work for evil companies" cheapened it quite severely before even getting to the latter half of the comment.

That's really the main point, though. People complain about "punching down" in comedy, but that's all this ever looks like to me. It's always somebody who works at Google, or Facebook, or Salesforce, or blah blah blah, which is something that I consider to be far, far more egregious than telling off color jokes or defending the reputation of your deceased friend. If you spy on people or send spam to make money, you'r…

To be clear, many progressives hold this same opinion.

Re: Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

#58
post #39

> He takes everything literally and doesn’t necessarily take feelings and the reactions of others into account when making statements that are outside the bounds of his expertise in free software. Whelp, then no one should be that surprised when people stop taking his feelings into account and decide they no longer want to be associated with him. Not being an asshole is a two-way street.

there's a large contingent of people on hn (in tech, in the world) that fetishize "logic" and believe it always trumps "feelings". i put both in quotes because to this contingent both of those concepts have absolutely zero relation to their actual form. i too used to be quite fond of making completely dispassionate arguments about controversial things (race, gender, class, etc.) because i believed that the entire con…

I think you summed it up really well, but reached the wrong conclusion. Who cares who is entitled to Palestine? It's a boring and pointless problem to try and solve. People who are interested in spending their lives productively are understandably fed up with others who want to squabble over their pointless feelings that contribute nothing to society.

Re: Richard Stallman Has Been Vilified by Those Who Don’t Know Him

#59
post #39

> He takes everything literally and doesn’t necessarily take feelings and the reactions of others into account when making statements that are outside the bounds of his expertise in free software. Whelp, then no one should be that surprised when people stop taking his feelings into account and decide they no longer want to be associated with him. Not being an asshole is a two-way street.

there's a large contingent of people on hn (in tech, in the world) that fetishize "logic" and believe it always trumps "feelings". i put both in quotes because to this contingent both of those concepts have absolutely zero relation to their actual form. i too used to be quite fond of making completely dispassionate arguments about controversial things (race, gender, class, etc.) because i believed that the entire con…

The only progress you seem to have made is allow your feelings of abhorrent-ness to disregard all logical arguments that come your way which you decide are abusing their logical authority.

Pretty self-reinforcing thought pattern you've built there.

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