My Talk at Microsoft • Hacker News Board

Re: My Talk at Microsoft

#51

Post by ChrisSD » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 1:15 PM UTC

Crinus wrote: post #2

> And one other suggestion, which I made to a vice president but perhaps not in my talk. > > Release the source code of Windows under the GNU GPL. > > I know that is a stretch, but from what I heard there. it isn't totally impossible. I do not remember who or where exactly it was, but i remember someone influential from Microsoft that was asked about open sourcing Windows (not necessarily under GPL) and they also sai…

When I asked HN about the licensing for windows.h and similar header files, there was some incredulity that MS could ever give them a permissive license (or even a slightly less restrictive one). And this was just for the public header files that define a public interface!

So I think it unlikely because Windows developers aren't calling for it and Linux developers don't care about it. Sure they'll open source particularly services and applications, especially as they move to more platforms. But I doubt they'd open source Windows itself.

Re: My Talk at Microsoft

#52

Post by Maximus9000 » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 1:16 PM UTC

midgetjones wrote: post #46

Maximus9000 wrote: post #30

Some clunky writing here: > it isn't totally impossible. > so we can run them without any nonfree software Edit: removed my suggestions

> > it isn't totally impossible. > how about: "It's totally possible" That completely changes the meaning.

Agreed, my suggestion might be off. Either way, he's got some clunky sentences there.

Re: My Talk at Microsoft

#53

Post by dash2 » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 1:17 PM UTC

5trokerac3 wrote: post #16

> I resisted Steve Jobs's snow job in 1989 or 1990; I am no easy mark for those who want me to change my views. Why do people still prop this insufferable person up? Interacting with everyone like an angsty teen is no way for anyone who considers themself a professional to publicly talk. IMO FOSS is where it is today more despite Stallman than because of him. Being an asshole isn't necessarily a sign of being a savan…

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”

Re: My Talk at Microsoft

#54

Post by squarefoot » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 1:18 PM UTC

Crinus wrote: post #2

> And one other suggestion, which I made to a vice president but perhaps not in my talk. > > Release the source code of Windows under the GNU GPL. > > I know that is a stretch, but from what I heard there. it isn't totally impossible. I do not remember who or where exactly it was, but i remember someone influential from Microsoft that was asked about open sourcing Windows (not necessarily under GPL) and they also sai…

I also don't think it's impossible, but I am also sure they're not going to open any significant part of Windows until they have full control of Linux in corporate environments, which is probably going to happen in less than 10 years, or a lot less should they buy a well known popular distro then turn it into Microsoft Linux.

Re: My Talk at Microsoft

#55

Post by cameronbrown » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 1:19 PM UTC

meddlepal wrote: post #10

Crinus wrote: post #2

> And one other suggestion, which I made to a vice president but perhaps not in my talk. > > Release the source code of Windows under the GNU GPL. > > I know that is a stretch, but from what I heard there. it isn't totally impossible. I do not remember who or where exactly it was, but i remember someone influential from Microsoft that was asked about open sourcing Windows (not necessarily under GPL) and they also sai…

I don't know why anyone would think it is impossible, but it would take significant money and time to do it and it is unclear what benefit there would be except some small good will gained from developers that care about the FSF mission.

If Windows was open sourced it'd easily reach mainstream media awareness.

Re: My Talk at Microsoft

#56

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 1:19 PM UTC

GoofballJones wrote: post #33

5trokerac3 wrote: post #16

> I resisted Steve Jobs's snow job in 1989 or 1990; I am no easy mark for those who want me to change my views. Why do people still prop this insufferable person up? Interacting with everyone like an angsty teen is no way for anyone who considers themself a professional to publicly talk. IMO FOSS is where it is today more despite Stallman than because of him. Being an asshole isn't necessarily a sign of being a savan…

He IS an insufferable prick. He's a loon. He's always been a loon and said loony things. Yes, many many many years ago he contributed a lot of things that are important to the Free Software movement, but just because he did that doesn't mean he's immune from being criticized for being a shitty person. People can still admire what he did back in the day, but you don't have to defend his views or his bullshit. Like Bob…

[deleted]

Re: My Talk at Microsoft

#57

Post by jdm2212 » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 1:20 PM UTC

dash2 wrote: post #53

5trokerac3 wrote: post #16

> I resisted Steve Jobs's snow job in 1989 or 1990; I am no easy mark for those who want me to change my views. Why do people still prop this insufferable person up? Interacting with everyone like an angsty teen is no way for anyone who considers themself a professional to publicly talk. IMO FOSS is where it is today more despite Stallman than because of him. Being an asshole isn't necessarily a sign of being a savan…

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”

Most unreasonable people are useless though. There's only a small subset who drive progress.

Re: My Talk at Microsoft

#58

Post by Gaelan » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 1:20 PM UTC

decoyworker wrote: post #36

I'm usually the first to shit on Stallman but I really liked his suggestions here. But hypothetically if Microsoft fully implements all of what RMS suggested would Windows be listed as an approved distro on gnu.org? https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-non-gnu-distros.html https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-system-distribution-guideli...

They’d have to drop the windows store, no?

Re: My Talk at Microsoft

#59

Post by ChrisSD » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 1:20 PM UTC

Jedd wrote: post #29

Zhyl wrote: post #5

>Publicly take back Microsoft's attacks on copyleft made in the 2000s. Ballmer called the GPL a "cancer". Allchin called it "un-American". (from the "Suggestions I gave to Microsoft" section) This is something I agree with. I don't think that Microsoft are likely to apologise for EEE [1] as that is likely just considered 'business' and part of the zeitgeist; neither do I think that Microsoft necessarily needs to endo…

> They should, however, be a bit more repentant about starting a McCarthy-esque red scare against all things open source. Or, as rms went to some lengths to explain here and elsewhere, free software. Paying attention is important in this particular case.

But MS were, at the time, against all things open source. Not just free software (although that did seem to get the full brunt of their ire).

Re: My Talk at Microsoft

#60

Post by typon » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 1:21 PM UTC

Maximus9000 wrote: post #30

Some clunky writing here: > it isn't totally impossible. > so we can run them without any nonfree software Edit: removed my suggestions

Your edits fail to convey the context in which these sentences are written. Sometimes using a double negative conveys information that would be lost otherwise. In this case, the normal response to rms' suggestion would be "that's impossible!", to which he's replying that no, it isn't totally impossible.