Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 182 posts

Re: A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

#51

Post by Porthos9K »

mymacbook wrote: post #48
reilly3000 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a recovering marketer I take no offense to that statement. I started my exit from the field when I was working with a PR firm that was running a "behavior modification" campaign. Psyops presumably has regulations and oversight; marketing has nothing of the sort. Want to convince a billion people to drink an addictive chemical known to cause colon cancer? Classic.

Are you referring to alcohol or something else?

Check out the ingredients on your favorite soft drink. There's probably all sorts of stuff listed that has been shown to cause cancer in rats.

Re: A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

#52

Post by Porthos9K »

wongarsu wrote: post #50
Porthos9K wrote: post #22

I'm surprised more cyberpunk authors didn't anticipate that wars between corporations wouldn't be fought using hackers or "street samurai", but with teams of propagandists competing to do a better job of bullshitting the general public. Yes, I'm calling marketers and advertisers propagandists. As far as I'm concerned, marketing and advertising are nothing but private-sector psyops.

This world truly is a boring dystopia.

Yeah, I know. I mean, what kind of half-assed dystopia can be described by lyrics from a thirty-year-old rock opera like Queensryche's Operation: Mindcrime (EMI, 1988)?

Re: A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

#53

Post by _edo »

pm24601 wrote: post #3

Poor, Poor Amazon. Amazon is run by the richest person in the entire world who will come to the oligarch's aid? Amazon paid NO income taxes last year. I am against Amazon for that reason alone.

> Amazon paid NO income taxes last year.

This is not true. They paid no federal income tax which is not the same as no income tax. In 2018 they paid $1.2 billion globally[0] and I don't understand how much they paid domestically because deferred income tax is confusing to me.[1]

Taxes are extremely complicated and a lot of people (politicians especially) will pick one or two numbers that support their narrative. They know most people won't spend the time researching the context surrounding their "statistics" and they also bank on how people will misunderstand what they're reporting.

You just said "NO income taxes last year." The people popularizing the "no federal income taxes" meme know a lot of people will think it means "no income taxes."

[0] - https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/amzn/financials [1] - https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/deferredincometax.asp

Re: A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

#54

Post by lemm »

Grassroots organizing is dead. Nowadays you have a bunch of groups funded by ridiculously wealthy foundations and donors who are chasing the ghost of grassroots organizing which has been dead for years.

I work for a small nonprofit which claims to run grassroots advocacy campaigns. We are in the environmental sector, but I'm sure it is similar in other areas. A solid 70% of our funding comes from large foundations. We pick an issue, get people fired up on social media about it, then call it grassroots just because a bunch of people supported it.

Re: A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

#55

Post by reilly3000 »

Liquix wrote: post #44
reilly3000 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a recovering marketer I take no offense to that statement. I started my exit from the field when I was working with a PR firm that was running a "behavior modification" campaign. Psyops presumably has regulations and oversight; marketing has nothing of the sort. Want to convince a billion people to drink an addictive chemical known to cause colon cancer? Classic.

Was that a hypothetical..? If not, are you at liberty to share which chemical?

I was referring to Coca-cola, consistently among the top advertisers in the world. Often things that are so large and commonplace, its difficult for us to see them as anything but 'normal'.

Re: A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

#56

Post by Porthos9K »

reilly3000 wrote: post #55
Liquix wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was that a hypothetical..? If not, are you at liberty to share which chemical?

I was referring to Coca-cola, consistently among the top advertisers in the world. Often things that are so large and commonplace, its difficult for us to see them as anything but 'normal'.

That's what I figured from the "Classic." bit, but I didn't want to spoil it for everybody else. :)

Re: A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

#57

Post by CodeMage »

Porthos9K wrote: post #22

I'm surprised more cyberpunk authors didn't anticipate that wars between corporations wouldn't be fought using hackers or "street samurai", but with teams of propagandists competing to do a better job of bullshitting the general public. Yes, I'm calling marketers and advertisers propagandists. As far as I'm concerned, marketing and advertising are nothing but private-sector psyops.

I would recommend "The Space Merchants" by Cyril Kornbluth and Frederik Pohl, and also the sequel, "The Merchants' War" by Frederik Pohl. They predate the cyberpunk era, but you'll find what you're looking for in them.

Re: A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

#58

Post by wolco »

cameronbrown wrote: post #16
evan_ wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't be angry at Amazon (and the others) - campaign to change the law. You can do both. In many if not all cases the tax loopholes are a result of an amazon-like company lobbying politicians, they’re not innocently taking advantage of a neutral situation.

Doing both is a waste of time and mental energy, neither of which are infinite. Amazon will not change if the law doesn't. Pick your battles.

Brand protection is important for a customer facing company. The right campaign will enact change quicker.

Re: A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

#59

Post by orhmeh09 »

cameronbrown wrote: post #11
pm24601 wrote: post #3

Poor, Poor Amazon. Amazon is run by the richest person in the entire world who will come to the oligarch's aid? Amazon paid NO income taxes last year. I am against Amazon for that reason alone.

Don't be angry at Amazon (and the others) - campaign to change the law. Fixating on massive corporations not paying tax is actually making the problem worse, because it takes attention away from the only thing that can fix the problem which is changing the law . Anything less is just asking companies to hurt themselves for no reason. Just like how most people would pay lower taxes if it was legal, the same goes for c…

We have tried to do this and we nearly succeeded in Seattle before the mayor antidemocratically shut it down. When you’re up against so much money and power , you’re up against the people who write the laws too.

Re: A ‘Grass-Roots’ Campaign to Take Down Amazon Is Funded By Its Biggest Rivals

#60

Post by Porthos9K »

CodeMage wrote: post #57
Porthos9K wrote: post #22

I'm surprised more cyberpunk authors didn't anticipate that wars between corporations wouldn't be fought using hackers or "street samurai", but with teams of propagandists competing to do a better job of bullshitting the general public. Yes, I'm calling marketers and advertisers propagandists. As far as I'm concerned, marketing and advertising are nothing but private-sector psyops.

I would recommend "The Space Merchants" by Cyril Kornbluth and Frederik Pohl, and also the sequel, "The Merchants' War" by Frederik Pohl. They predate the cyberpunk era, but you'll find what you're looking for in them.

Thanks. Adding them to my TBR list now. Frederick Pohl is one of those classic sf authors that I know I should read but have yet to get around to.
Post reply on HN