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Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

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Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#51

Post by seppin »

Simulacra wrote: post #17

What I know is that before ACA, my health insurance was about $150 a month. Now it’s $650 a month. I can’t afford to subsidize other people’s bad choices and inability to pay. Health insurance should not be robbing Peter to pay Paul, we should return to an open market place.

> What I know is that before ACA, my health insurance was about $150 a month. Now it’s $650 a month

The health insurance industry is a middle man that provides no services and only acts to raise prices. The whole industry needs to die, yesterday.

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#52

Post by elliotec »

no_opinions wrote: post #29

In European countries I visited, primarily Scandinavian ones, they take such pride in their social system. If some European countries is any example, publicly run healthcare can incentivize innovation in private health insurances. Apparently EU citizens (and visa holders?) get a healthcare card that's portable across EU. Is this true? Any Europeans healthcare users have opinions on the healthcare system there? Any wi…

Correct, and they share data across countries and offices. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Health_Insurance_Card

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#53

Post by remotecool »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #28
sneak wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Torn down by whom? There is a whole system of laws and companies and staff that would object to such a dictatorial move. We agree that it’s fucked. We likely disagree on where it needs to go, and possibly on how it needs to get there. Actionable steps to improve are what is needed, especially now that stance on healthcare regulation has become a point of political identity in the USA. I think it will probably get wor…

60% of Americans believe the government (in some form) should ensure healthcare for its citizens (per Pew Research). 70% of Americans support Medicare for All. We’re going single payer (Medicare For All), it’s just a matter of when (the younger you are, the more you’re likely to support it). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/03/most-contin... https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/412545-70-...

I don't look forward to this day.

What many people don't realize is that the majority of new medicine is patented and created in the US. Once it's released, governments that have socialized health care create generics and get around these costs, mostly because they don't have to put any money into R&D.

The world of medicine will be in trouble without our system, because govetnments are really not that good at innovation.

Socialized medicine is great for simple checkups, but breaks down as you get older and need major surgery.

I really don't want the government making these life or death decisions.

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#54

Post by pishpash »

didibus wrote: post #26
rayiner wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a proponent of universal healthcare, but pointing to "insurance industry greed" is a dishonest narrative. Health insurers are having a banner year, and that means their profit margins are approaching 6%. (By contrast, Facebook is regularly over 40%.) For the year ending Q3 2018, health insurer profits amounted to $25 billion, industry wide , which is about the same as Google alone makes in a year. If running a bu…

An insurance company should be operating at cost though. They should all eventually compete on the lowest prices until someone reaches close to operating cost. It should be a race to the bottom. Also, part of the costs are related to inflated health care and med costs. Because insurer can pay more, health care can charge more. Their profit should come from them working to lower those prices, not from lowering their c…

The problem I'm afraid isn't the 6% margin, but the regulations that inhibit a truly competitive insurance market. To start with, state-based insurance is a legacy that makes no sense today.

I'll gladly pay 6% if insurance companies went to bat on cost instead of half-colluding with providers, and innovated.

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#55

Post by toomuchtodo »

remotecool wrote: post #53
toomuchtodo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60% of Americans believe the government (in some form) should ensure healthcare for its citizens (per Pew Research). 70% of Americans support Medicare for All. We’re going single payer (Medicare For All), it’s just a matter of when (the younger you are, the more you’re likely to support it). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/03/most-contin... https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/412545-70-...

I don't look forward to this day. What many people don't realize is that the majority of new medicine is patented and created in the US. Once it's released, governments that have socialized health care create generics and get around these costs, mostly because they don't have to put any money into R&D. The world of medicine will be in trouble without our system, because govetnments are really not that good at innovat…

Private insurance makes those decisions already (care rationing), as does the government when you’re on Medicare (government run healthcare with very high approval ratings from those on it [per Gallup and AARP]).

You’re hand wringing over a system that is already here, and your fears are unfounded. If you want more drug R&D, up the funding for the National Institute of Health; it’s then publicly owned, and you’ve cut out yet another middleman (drug companies).

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#56

Post by wutbrodo »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #6

The US system really needs to be torn down and rebuilt from scratch. Stories like this simply shouldn’t happen. There is almost no way as a patient to ensure your coverage is sufficient besides having a lot of money in case. It’s insane and hard to understand how anyone can defend this. With the lack of information the patient has nobody should talk about free markets. A functioning market requires that all participa…

Honestly, a free market might even be better than what we have (though something like single-payer would be ideal). As usual, we have the weird half-assed worst of both works policy solution that comes from neither self-consistent solution being palatable to the electorate.

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#57

Post by hwillis »

godzillabrennus wrote: post #32
toomuchtodo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60% of Americans believe the government (in some form) should ensure healthcare for its citizens (per Pew Research). 70% of Americans support Medicare for All. We’re going single payer (Medicare For All), it’s just a matter of when (the younger you are, the more you’re likely to support it). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/03/most-contin... https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/412545-70-...

Makes sense to go single payer (and I tend to be pretty libertarian over all). Insurance is about having a pool of payers large enough for offsetting costs. The larger the pool in a nation with population growth the higher probability that a larger pool will be better. The largest pool is everyone. I don’t like calling it a human right. That implies the doctors are enslaved to provide care. No rational and highly int…

> I don’t like calling it a human right. That implies the doctors are enslaved to provide care. No rational and highly intelligent person will pursue medicine as a career if it’s going to require 12 years of education before conscription into unpaid labor.

That's a ridiculous Shapiro-esque take. Are programmers enslaved by accessibility requirements? Are constructors and building owners enslaved by handicapped bathrooms and wheelchair ramps? Not to mention, the thing you're describing already exists and is one of the least controversial parts of healthcare. Doctors are required to provide care, even above and beyond the Hippocratic oath. They cannot discriminate against their patients in many circumstances. Generally this is agreed to be a good thing.

Healthcare as a human right does not mean that people are forced to become doctors and forced to provide care. It means that the available care should be distributed to everyone, just like the ADA means that available resources must also be distributed to give some level of equity to people born with disabilities. All humans deserve an equal footing, and should not be responsible for bad things happening to them which are not their fault. Disabilities are an obvious and clear example of that. Healthcare is similar.

I have no particular stance on healthcare as a human right but you're being atrociously uncharitable in representing it.

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#58

Post by alpineidyll3 »

old-gregg wrote: post #43
Ididntdothis wrote: post #6

The US system really needs to be torn down and rebuilt from scratch. Stories like this simply shouldn’t happen. There is almost no way as a patient to ensure your coverage is sufficient besides having a lot of money in case. It’s insane and hard to understand how anyone can defend this. With the lack of information the patient has nobody should talk about free markets. A functioning market requires that all participa…

> [US healthcare] needs to be torn down and rebuilt from scratch... Here are some numbers, just to provide perspective: [1] The worst recession in recent history (2008-09) featured a drop of US GDP by -2.5%. The US healthcare spending per capita is about twice as high than EU average. US healthcare spending is about 17% of GDP. Which means if we somehow manage to fix it and bring it to average European levels, that w…

You're confusing spending with production :P. This money would be spent elsewhere. Calling a number GDP is highly deceptive...

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#59

Post by pishpash »

Simulacra wrote: post #17

What I know is that before ACA, my health insurance was about $150 a month. Now it’s $650 a month. I can’t afford to subsidize other people’s bad choices and inability to pay. Health insurance should not be robbing Peter to pay Paul, we should return to an open market place.

You're not paying for that through premiums, taxes are. Your increase is due to the cost of care increasing, blame your doctors and their MBA-run hospitals charging $500 for a 10-minute office visit.

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#60

Post by roland00 »

remotecool wrote: post #53
toomuchtodo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60% of Americans believe the government (in some form) should ensure healthcare for its citizens (per Pew Research). 70% of Americans support Medicare for All. We’re going single payer (Medicare For All), it’s just a matter of when (the younger you are, the more you’re likely to support it). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/03/most-contin... https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/412545-70-...

I don't look forward to this day. What many people don't realize is that the majority of new medicine is patented and created in the US. Once it's released, governments that have socialized health care create generics and get around these costs, mostly because they don't have to put any money into R&D. The world of medicine will be in trouble without our system, because govetnments are really not that good at innovat…

>The world of medicine will be in trouble without our system, because govetnments are really not that good at innovation.

Medicine is not like building a factory, completely different capital model for Medicine is about "discovery" there is a universal truth out there (yes there is differences in genes not making it perfectly universal) , and advances in medicine is figuring out this discovery.

It actually appears most of our medicine discoveries use basic research that is governmentally funded and not privately funded.

Pretty much you are applying top down ideology that government is bad no matter the situation or context.

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