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Ask HN: React Native or Flutter?

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Re: Ask HN: React Native or Flutter?

#51

Post by crispinb »

pjmlp wrote: post #50
crispinb wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's only an impression I have. I'm not seeing much use of PWAs in the wild, and there seem to be fewer articles touting them, but that's just my sample. If what you say is true, I'd be pleased.

Even Microsoft has replaced their JavaScript UWP bindings (WinJS) for PWAs. https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/pwa Chrome has added support for PlayStore PWAs (TWA) https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2019/02/using-twa And even Apple has improved the support since iOS 12.2.

The Microsoft example seems a bit desperate - they bombed in mobile so of course they're seeking cross-platform refuge.

But are PWAs being used that much for real? Beyond just installable web sites (ie. full offline support with service workers, etc?). I seem to remember Twitter did a nice job with Twitter Lite, but I've never seen anyone use it. Again from memory I think Skype did a quite impressive PWA. I'm a big fan of Checkvist, & they have a PWA which is moving slowly but in a good direction.

Anyway, that aside, for a dev wanting to get into the mobile space (which I think was the OP's intent), PWAs would hardly be the best first option for a tech to learn. Surely whatever your personal tastes, you wouldn't disagree?

Re: Ask HN: React Native or Flutter?

#52

Post by clumsysmurf »

rvz wrote: post #46

I have seen this question before on HN and I think my previous response seems to be relevant to this and should help the OP. This ultimately depends on your situation. I would have said Flutter since it is past 1.0 and RN is still in beta. But my main problem here is that you will quickly run into difficulty in attempting to use C/C++ libraries in Dart. Dart has beta support for native FFI but it is not stable unlike…

> The issue is still open on Github: https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/7053

The last message in that thread mentions dart:ffi is in preview.

Re: Ask HN: React Native or Flutter?

#53

Post by pjmlp »

crispinb wrote: post #51
pjmlp wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even Microsoft has replaced their JavaScript UWP bindings (WinJS) for PWAs. https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/pwa Chrome has added support for PlayStore PWAs (TWA) https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2019/02/using-twa And even Apple has improved the support since iOS 12.2.

The Microsoft example seems a bit desperate - they bombed in mobile so of course they're seeking cross-platform refuge. But are PWAs being used that much for real? Beyond just installable web sites (ie. full offline support with service workers, etc?). I seem to remember Twitter did a nice job with Twitter Lite, but I've never seen anyone use it. Again from memory I think Skype did a quite impressive PWA. I'm a big f…

Yes, many digital web agencies are going through that route for mobile web sites, instead of having to deal with native toolchains.

Do you also consider Google and Apple's move desperate then?

While Microsoft has definitively bombed on phones, they are doing pretty alright on convertible laptops/hybrid tablets.

As for best option, I also mentioned a couple of other ones, which I advocate as alternative to PWAs.

I see Flutter has a future as bright as CoffeeScript, if it keeps being tied to Dart.

As for React Native, it depends on how much one feels like having to deal with JavaScript and the interoperability issue that often happen across Android devices.

Re: Ask HN: React Native or Flutter?

#54

Post by pjmlp »

clumsysmurf wrote: post #52
rvz wrote: post #46

I have seen this question before on HN and I think my previous response seems to be relevant to this and should help the OP. This ultimately depends on your situation. I would have said Flutter since it is past 1.0 and RN is still in beta. But my main problem here is that you will quickly run into difficulty in attempting to use C/C++ libraries in Dart. Dart has beta support for native FFI but it is not stable unlike…

> The issue is still open on Github: https://github.com/flutter/flutter/issues/7053 The last message in that thread mentions dart:ffi is in preview.

It is, and looks like a toy versus what P/Invoke is capable of.

Re: Ask HN: React Native or Flutter?

#55

Post by crispinb »

pjmlp wrote: post #53
crispinb wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Microsoft example seems a bit desperate - they bombed in mobile so of course they're seeking cross-platform refuge. But are PWAs being used that much for real? Beyond just installable web sites (ie. full offline support with service workers, etc?). I seem to remember Twitter did a nice job with Twitter Lite, but I've never seen anyone use it. Again from memory I think Skype did a quite impressive PWA. I'm a big f…

Yes, many digital web agencies are going through that route for mobile web sites, instead of having to deal with native toolchains. Do you also consider Google and Apple's move desperate then? While Microsoft has definitively bombed on phones, they are doing pretty alright on convertible laptops/hybrid tablets. As for best option, I also mentioned a couple of other ones, which I advocate as alternative to PWAs. I see…

It was your invocation of Microsoft's move I considered desperate.

You're still studiously avoid mentioning any actual PWAs. I'm someone who wishes PWAs would take over, as I dislike all the OSs and don't want my usage habits or data to be tied to them. But as of now it's not happening, is it?

If a person was trying to advise a developer new to mobile apps, with their interests rather than the advisor's tastes in mind, I cannot believe they'd advise PWAs as a primary focus.

Learning a platform isn't a forever-decision. A new mobile app developer can always learn new tech as needed. But if they want a start now, they're better off learning what's dominating today.

Re: Ask HN: React Native or Flutter?

#57

Post by chrisa »

I love React Native!

That said - if you're not familiar with the JS ecosystem (node_modules, etc), then it can seem a bit overwhelming at first, especially when you encounter configuration or build errors. I don't have any great answers for that except that "it gets easier" with more time and practice.

Also, if you haven't looked at React Native for a couple of years and had a bad experience before - try it again! It's come a really long way in just a few years.

For example: I used to have to worry about cross platform code/libraries working on iOS and not Android - but almost never run into that anymore.

Re: Ask HN: React Native or Flutter?

#58

Post by rubber_duck »

onion2k wrote: post #48
reactor wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dabbled with Dart for sometime, got an impression that a competent Java/C# developer can pick up Dart in no time, I think hiring shouldn't be an issue.

There are a bunch of problems. Firstly, people simply don't apply for jobs that use languages they don't know. That makes filling a role really hard. Secondly, if someone has to learn the language when they join that puts a lag on how quickly they can be useful. You can't go as fast, which is bad if you're a startup. And lastly, companies are (usually) very reluctant to let someone spend the first few months getting…

> Firstly, people simply don't apply for jobs that use languages they don't know.

I did in my last job change - and 80% of the office here didn't know the stack/language when they first came in.

> Secondly, if someone has to learn the language when they join that puts a lag on how quickly they can be useful.

You could learn enough dart to be useful in a day if you are a C#/Java dev with JS experience - enough to go through the codebase - and thats something that takes time no matter what the language - dart isn't that exotic.

Flutter has a higher learning curve but that should also be on the order of week or two depending on how much you know about frontend. React native is the same deal.

> And lastly, companies are (usually) very reluctant to let someone spend the first few months getting up to speed if a technology choice means they can recruit people who'll immediately be effective.

Meh - when they chose stuff like Dart they know hiring pool is limited and usually word the job posting like that - ie. they expect you to be able to pick it up on the go.

I mean your whole argument is nonsense because things like this happen all the time - my current gig I started as a .NET dev with some python/django experience - I'm working on ruby on Rails stack - never touched that before in my life. Took me like 1 day of reading up to be able to go through the codebase - a few weeks and code reviews and I'm pretty much in tune with how they write RoR.

Re: Ask HN: React Native or Flutter?

#59

Post by lucasverra »

WA wrote: post #9

Although unpopular on HN: Cordova-based apps with a good mobile look-alike framework can get you very far for a smallish app. Advantages: - truly one code base - iOS, Android, and web apps - JavaScript skills are useful - experience is "good enough" for the average user Downsides: - almost no fine-grained control of input controls (like which keyboard to show) - doesn’t respect users’ accessibility options of the OS…

Excellent recap.

Can you link to one app ported on the 3 platforms (Android,iOS,Web) so we can test performance from a UX point of view ?

Re: Ask HN: React Native or Flutter?

#60

Post by lucasverra »

crispinb wrote: post #55
pjmlp wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, many digital web agencies are going through that route for mobile web sites, instead of having to deal with native toolchains. Do you also consider Google and Apple's move desperate then? While Microsoft has definitively bombed on phones, they are doing pretty alright on convertible laptops/hybrid tablets. As for best option, I also mentioned a couple of other ones, which I advocate as alternative to PWAs. I see…

It was your invocation of Microsoft's move I considered desperate. You're still studiously avoid mentioning any actual PWAs. I'm someone who wishes PWAs would take over, as I dislike all the OSs and don't want my usage habits or data to be tied to them. But as of now it's not happening, is it? If a person was trying to advise a developer new to mobile apps, with their interests rather than the advisor's tastes in min…

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