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The End of the Golden Era of American Chess

theatlantic.com

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Re: The End of the Golden Era of American Chess

#51

Post by tempguy9999 »

craigsmansion wrote: post #38
icelancer wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> End result is world championships like the last one of all draws, which was just pathetic. Yeah, this sucks. We've reached local maxima.

If it becomes too boring, the rules might be modified. Castling and en-passant were not always a given. Something simple like a draw is 1/4 point for white, 3/4 point for black, might re-invigorate matches in classical format.

I've invented several chess variants, none any good except for one which allowed you to take your own pieces. Seemed pretty good. Inevitably it's been done before https://www.chessvariants.com/difftaking.dir/selfeliminator.... So there's my offer for a new variant.

Re: The End of the Golden Era of American Chess

#52

Post by yifanl »

krzat wrote: post #25

A bit offtopic: is it still possible to create a Chess/Go type game that is easy for humans but hard for AI? Or are we past that point already?

Sure, a game where the rules can't be easily codified but understandable by humans would pose a good challenge. I'd like to see a computer play Calvinball :)

Re: The End of the Golden Era of American Chess

#53

Post by pfdietz »

georgeoliver wrote: post #5
diminoten wrote: post #2

I dunno, I feel like "the end of golden era of American chess" is pretty unfair to the amazing things Sinquefield has going on in St. Louis right now, as well as all of the "new" online resources that continue to pop up, and the general penetration chess seems to be achieving in scholastic formats today. This article seems focused on a handful of luminaries, but I'd argue that a "golden era" of a thing is defined by…

In a way you can compare it to the "Golden Age" of science fiction, which cemented the genre in our culture, but you can judge its classics on their own merits while also considering them in light of the new works produced in the decades after.

Reminded of the well known quip: the golden age of science fiction is 14.

Re: The End of the Golden Era of American Chess

#54

Post by gosuri »

Pal Benko was one of the world's top grandmasters in the 1950s and 60s, playing in the Candidates Tournaments in 1959 and 1962 and notching up wins against the likes of Bobby Fischer and Mikhail Tal. He achieved that despite spending a year and a half in a Soviet concentration camp and defecting to the US in 1957.

What a legend! RIP

Re: The End of the Golden Era of American Chess

#55

Post by nimblegorilla »

billfruit wrote: post #42
craigsmansion wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it becomes too boring, the rules might be modified. Castling and en-passant were not always a given. Something simple like a draw is 1/4 point for white, 3/4 point for black, might re-invigorate matches in classical format.

Or that if a player offers to draw, and the other player declines and goes on to win, they shall be offered 2x points. I do wonder though, in a drawn situation, can't one player push for a win if they are ahead on time, which one of the players is sure to be? Why would anyone accept a draw if they are ahead on time?

Are you suggesting that one player could win by running out the clock? Classical gives players 30 more seconds after each move so it becomes unlikely to run out the clock.

Re: The End of the Golden Era of American Chess

#58

Post by alach11 »

krzat wrote: post #25

A bit offtopic: is it still possible to create a Chess/Go type game that is easy for humans but hard for AI? Or are we past that point already?

Humans still reign supreme (for now) at games which emphasize a heavy strategic component with a very large search space. For example, the OpenAI Five can only beat humans at DOTA with a very restricted scope (restricted champions and items).

Re: The End of the Golden Era of American Chess

#59

Post by EpicEng »

soup10 wrote: post #48
aflag wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if programmers are the new game masters. As far as I know, bots are not allowed in most, if not all, chess competitions. It's not like we stopped doing the 100m dash after the intention of the bicycle or the car. Those are just other racing categories.

over the board chess can be a struggle for programmers because we are so used to letting computers do the heavy lifting on calculations that its a struggle to think through tactical situations when you know a simple program would do the trick. It's almost like doing pen and paper arithmetic in the age of calculators.

Likely more along the lines of "being good at chess is hard", regardless of whether or not you're a programmer.

Re: The End of the Golden Era of American Chess

#60

Post by Cpoll »

mindgam3 wrote: post #14
tus88 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How has computer chess changed how humans play humans? (I.e. when you take the computer out of thr equation).

At the amateur level, not much. Other than most amateurs spend way too much time relying on engine evals, and as a result don’t develop their own ability to learn “chess sense”. Competitive players can now prepare easily for individual opponents, which is cool and used to only be feasible for pros. For pros, it means that everyone plays the same safe openings, because they’re all “booked up” thanks to engines. Also m…

I hear a lot of claims that 960 eliminates opening theory, but is that really the case?

I have no experience in the format, but I imagined that patterns would emerge (and Chess players are already good at spotting transpositions), and people would start studying a different form of opening theory.

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