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Alex Honnold's next summit: the rest of his life

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Re: Alex Honnold's next summit: the rest of his life

#51

Post by thrav »

navigatesol wrote: post #11
thrav wrote: post #4

Anytime I discussed Free Solo with anyone, including my wife, my feelings about Alex couldn’t have been more opposite from theirs. His bit about empathy and the fact that he’s, “just learning [his] lines” is probably relatable to many here. His comments about deciding to solo mostly because he wasn’t comfortable asking anyone to climb with him, and didn’t want anyone to see him do something stupid, while ranking in t…

> I came away sympathetic — recognizing a kindred spirit who’s capable of a lot, but had a hard time fitting in with the world If there's one thing I've learned about HackerNews, it's that everyone here is an exceptional but misunderstood genius. > while everyone else just saw a very impressive asshole. I don't know a single person who came away from this film with the impression that Alex Honnold is an asshole. Seem…

Read the article. His girlfriend is literally quoted saying people think he is an asshole.

---

Traffic is heavy, giving us time to discuss the parts of his Free Solo persona with which he disagrees.

"Oh, the daredevil," he says.

"The asshole," Sanni says.

"No, no, I don't think that's part of the public persona."

"I think it is."

Re: Alex Honnold's next summit: the rest of his life

#52

Post by cauthon »

gameswithgo wrote: post #25
balfirevic wrote: post #16

It's interesting to see some negative reactions to what Alex did. His actions bring to forefront a belief which doesn't seem to sit well with many: his life is his own. And our lives really are, ultimately, our own. Well, at least until we bring kids into the world. We can certainly choose to give up part of this autonomy, but we shouldn't demand it from anyone else.

I've been fascinated for a long time by how people get angry at others for taking risks. Ride my mountain bike slowly on a side walk without a helmet? It invokes ANGER in others. Why? Is it an evolutionary trait built into pack animals perhaps? That would make sense. But still, leave me alone! =) Also, yes internet I understand that falling from a mountain bike at a slow speed can impact your head just as hard as fal…

> Ride my mountain bike slowly on a side walk without a helmet? It invokes ANGER in others. Why?

People aren’t angry at you for riding without a helmet, they’re angry at you for riding on the sidewalk

Re: Alex Honnold's next summit: the rest of his life

#53

Post by thrav »

cletus wrote: post #40

I can't remember how or exactly when I came across Alex but it was several years ago. On the one hand I find parts of him highly relatable (eg "learning his lines" and his aversion to asking others to climb with him) and others not (eg I have zero inclination to climb anything). I certainly respect how much work and preparation he puts into his climbs. The question is: how is he different to the Everest glory hounds…

The textbook example of the Alex type who didn't slow down after starting a family: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afDYEtQmC6I

Re: Alex Honnold's next summit: the rest of his life

#54

Post by stereobit »

thrav wrote: post #4

Anytime I discussed Free Solo with anyone, including my wife, my feelings about Alex couldn’t have been more opposite from theirs. His bit about empathy and the fact that he’s, “just learning [his] lines” is probably relatable to many here. His comments about deciding to solo mostly because he wasn’t comfortable asking anyone to climb with him, and didn’t want anyone to see him do something stupid, while ranking in t…

I went to a Q&A with him after a showing in London and he was asked something around if the movie portrayed him accurately. His answer was more that they shot many hours over a long period of time and he never thought about how certain things he said would be perceived. I think he was suggesting that it was more a decision while editing to paint a picture in that way.

Re: Alex Honnold's next summit: the rest of his life

#55

Post by ken »

gameswithgo wrote: post #33
aikinai wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in the real world the consequences of your actions aren’t confined to yourself. Reckless behavior increases the impact on anyone involved in an accident with you, mentally impacts anyone that might see your brains splatter, increases insurance premiums, uses hospital resources, etc.

None of that is what actually causes people to be angry. Eating junk food, drinking a beer, driving a sports car, doesn't evoke the same emotional reaction in people, which has the same sorts of consequences if you did some sort of long term impact analysis, which normal people don't do on the spot. As well, insurance and hospital costs are likely reduced since I'm more often just dead rather than maimed. Plus I'll h…

> As well, insurance and hospital costs are likely reduced since I'm more often just dead rather than maimed.

No, please stop. This canard has been repeated by the anti-helmet crowd for decades, despite having been disproven countless times. Even if you're a number-crunching robot and care for nothing except how much cash it will cost today, helmets are a huge win.

> Also, yes internet I understand that falling from a mountain bike at a slow speed can impact your head just as hard as falling from a high speed, that isn't the point, or even entirely true.

You're riding so slowly that a fall won't impact your head much, but merely kill you?

Re: Alex Honnold's next summit: the rest of his life

#56

Post by jancsika »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #5
thrav wrote: post #4

Anytime I discussed Free Solo with anyone, including my wife, my feelings about Alex couldn’t have been more opposite from theirs. His bit about empathy and the fact that he’s, “just learning [his] lines” is probably relatable to many here. His comments about deciding to solo mostly because he wasn’t comfortable asking anyone to climb with him, and didn’t want anyone to see him do something stupid, while ranking in t…

When I watched the movie with my girlfriend I thought that he was refreshingly honest with his feelings. My girlfriend on the other hand thought that he was just a selfish prick. Pretty interesting.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Re: Alex Honnold's next summit: the rest of his life

#57

Post by ken »

balfirevic wrote: post #16

It's interesting to see some negative reactions to what Alex did. His actions bring to forefront a belief which doesn't seem to sit well with many: his life is his own. And our lives really are, ultimately, our own. Well, at least until we bring kids into the world. We can certainly choose to give up part of this autonomy, but we shouldn't demand it from anyone else.

From what I've seen of the world, this belief isn't universal across either time or space. It happens to be especially prevalent in North America right now, and found fertile ground on internet forums.

Neither of those is exactly a glowing recommendation in my book, though. If anything, they tend to make me suspicious, since it's hard to imagine any arenas where stability and sustainability are less valued than America and internet forums in 2019.

In specific contexts, even the most libertarian people seem to agree that complete autonomy simply isn't viable, e.g., in a spacecraft, or a military group in battle. When the survival of the group's members depends on everyone working together in a certain way, autonomy is surrendered.

I wonder if even America will come around on this issue in the future. As Buckminster Fuller said, we're all on Spaceship Earth. Its capacity for supporting human life looks more fragile now than any time I've been alive. I don't think Honnold's climb was particularly irresponsible, but there are countless actions that people do every day that are.

50 years ago, you could sit on your own land and burn a million gallons of oil, right up into the atmosphere, and we'd call that independence. Today, you're destroying our spaceship. (You didn't choose to live here, but neither did I.) There are many such issues that we once thought were only about individual freedom which have turned out to be global issues that affect us all. Every year, there seems to be less that I do that doesn't have far-reaching consequences.

The choice between Individual and Group isn't a binary decision -- almost nothing is -- but I've come to realize the sustainability threshold is much closer to the Group side than I ever before appreciated. We're way past Adam Smith.

Re: Alex Honnold's next summit: the rest of his life

#58

Post by Ntrails »

gadders wrote: post #22
Excel_Wizard wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it a thought along the lines of him being selfish because his death (at any time) could leave his family without him?

There was also that whole bit about how he thought he should break up with her because he didn't belay him properly or something. The guy has done some amazing feats, but he definitely seems as if he is on the spectrum.

> There was also that whole bit about how he thought he should break up with her because he didn't belay him properly or something.

Relationships have ended over a lot less than one person potentially ending the others career by being careless. It isn't a trivial thing where her technique was wrong, she fucking dropped him and he was lucky to only have a simple broken foot.

The more interesting quote to me was when talking about the guy they both knew who died free soloing. The gf said it must be awful for the wife, and Alex (iirc) said "well what did she expect?".

Re: Alex Honnold's next summit: the rest of his life

#59

Post by OutBriefCandle »

everdev wrote: post #50
gameswithgo wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of that is what actually causes people to be angry. Eating junk food, drinking a beer, driving a sports car, doesn't evoke the same emotional reaction in people, which has the same sorts of consequences if you did some sort of long term impact analysis, which normal people don't do on the spot. As well, insurance and hospital costs are likely reduced since I'm more often just dead rather than maimed. Plus I'll h…

A few ideas on why people get angry: 1. Public health campaigns - They don't get outraged by junk food, sports cars, etc. because there isn't advertising telling them it's unequivocally bad. Government will tell you that not wearing a helmet, smoking a cigarette, etc. is universally bad so it's easier for people to see someone "doing a bad thing". People get angry when other people "break the rules". 2. They know som…

I had a negative reaction to his free solo, but I wouldn't say I'm angry about it. I agree with the idea that he is his own person and can ultimately make his own decisions, but there are a couple things that bother me about the free solo that aren't covered here. While Alex may not have been known by the general public before this event he was pretty well known in the climbing community, and is obviously still well known. Therefore he wields an influence over others and particularly kids. Kids do stupid and risky things, because their brains aren't developed enough to judge the consequences of their actions. They want to emulate the pros, which in this case, climbing unroped, could be deadly. Another thing that bothers me about it is the sort of stigma it puts on the sport. Now, free soloing like what Alex did is what a lot of people think climbing is. I've been climbing for the past 12 years, 10 of those outside and on a good day it's nearly a spiritual experience. I love this sport and I find it incredibly rewarding. It is a dangerous sport, but there is a lot you can do to mitigate those dangers. I think when a lot people see the spectacle of 'free solo' they are awed by it, but may also think "I could never do something like that" and so never try to climb. This is why I think I have a negative reaction to the film.

Re: Alex Honnold's next summit: the rest of his life

#60

Post by ProAm »

reascenda wrote: post #18
navigatesol wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I came away sympathetic — recognizing a kindred spirit who’s capable of a lot, but had a hard time fitting in with the world If there's one thing I've learned about HackerNews, it's that everyone here is an exceptional but misunderstood genius. > while everyone else just saw a very impressive asshole. I don't know a single person who came away from this film with the impression that Alex Honnold is an asshole. Seem…

I thought he was an asshole. Quite apart from how he came across in the film exposing yourself to utterly needless danger is a very bad way to treat people who love you.

> exposing yourself to utterly needless danger is a very bad way to treat people who love you

He didnt ask those people to love him, their emotions are not his responsibility, he gets to live his life the way he wants to. That's his right of existence.

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