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Dissatisfied with Docker

robert.ocallahan.org

51–60 of 229 posts

Re: Dissatisfied with Docker

#51
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a number of ways to get this kind of functionality. Can you expound on "different computer"?

What part of "different computer" is confusing to you?

How different, for one.

Are they running the same OS? The same architecture? Do they have any software installed?

Re: Dissatisfied with Docker

#52
post #6

I'm newer to the Docker scene but haven't really found any of the complaints in this article realized in my work. Faster speed would be nice but I don't really mind it now. I see a lot of complaints about the docker daemon and root privileges on HN and I've tried to understand where they are coming from but I can't get anywhere. For instance, I understand the reasoning behind "if there is no need for a daemon there s…

It would be faster. I also don’t really care if a container take 2 seconds or 100ms to start... but building docker images is painfully slow. I’ve also ended up (numerous times) with the “docker daemon is borked” situation, which requires a restart to fix... and you can imagine how that sucks on a prod or multi tenant systems.

I've also run into the daemon crashing on production systems and taking down all of the other containers on that host. I end up just killing the host and restarting the jobs on a newly provisioned one. There's a lot of overhead. If they could get it to run without requiring a persistent (and root) shared daemon that would be a big improvement.

Re: Dissatisfied with Docker

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Docker for Mac/Windows still run in a hypervisor because so much of Docker is specific to Linux/cgroups. As I understand it, that what you describe is true of Docker for Mac, but not Docker for Windows which uses Windows' built-in container support (analogous to cgroups). https://stefanscherer.github.io/how-to-run-lightweight-windo...

As far as I understand it, that only applies to Windows-based containers running on Win 10 Pro/Enterprise or Win Server 2016.

This is true. Linux containers still require the VM running in Hyper-V in the background.

Re: Dissatisfied with Docker

#54
post #12
post #2

I am currently on this train. Having used rkt in the past, I went to revisit it recently only to find this: https://www.cncf.io/blog/2019/08/16/cncf-archives-the-rkt-pr... I am so extremely disappointed in the CNCF as rkt (at the time, at least) seemed to be more "production ready" than Docker. Are there any real alternatives? Is the answer "find something else that uses containerd in a more friendly way?" Is the ans…

Maybe containerd [0] is an alternative? It's being used in k3s instead of Docker. [0]: https://containerd.io/ edit: I didn't notice that you mentioned this in your comment, my bad. Can you explain why it doesn't work for you? I'm new to the Docker-alternative scene and thought it looked pretty good at first glance.

Docker uses containerd.

Here's an image straight from a blog post from last year: https://i1.wp.com/blog.docker.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09...

https://blog.docker.com/2018/09/join-the-beta-for-docker-eng...

Re: Dissatisfied with Docker

#55

The article is completely on point. Because of all the reasons exposed there (and a few more) I started Wasmer, a new container system based on WebAssembly - https://wasmer.io/ Here are some advantages of Wasmer vs Docker: * Much faster startup time * Smaller containers * OS independent containers (they can run in Linux, macOS and Windows) * Chipset independent containers (so they can run anywhere: x86_64, Aarch64/AR…

Wasmer looks cool but FWIW it wouldn't address our (OP) needs. For one thing, in our containers we dynamically generate x86 machine code and execute it (yes, it has to be x86). Our needs are a bit special of course.

Re: Dissatisfied with Docker

#56
I'm surprised nobody is mentioning LXC[1]. I'm by no means a containers expert, but they claim to be more secure since they default to running as non-root. Unlike docker, I had no trouble installing LXC with apt, while with docker I often got an outdated version. I'm now using LXC for all of my basic container applications (self hosting a wiki and a few other sites).

[1]: https://linuxcontainers.org/

Re: Dissatisfied with Docker

#57
post #44

What's wrong with booting a VM off a standardized base image (e.g. an AMI), and then applying simple deployment scripts for each application you need to run? You could probably replicate 90% of the justification for using docker with some basic scripting. git clone https://github.com/myprofile/my-cool-app cd my-cool-app chmod +x deploy.sh ./deploy.sh That's it. The above script would be responsible for getting your a…

Off the top of my head: two things in our (OP) case: 1) Memory overhead 2) Slow access to filesystem storage shared between containers

Re: Dissatisfied with Docker

#58
post #10

I just want to be able to save a container binary to a USB drive and then run it from a different computer without having to install anything.

The first time I emailed a buddy a Go cross-compiled binary and he opened and it ran no problem (opsec aside), our worlds changed.

Re: Dissatisfied with Docker

#59

These are all pretty good points. I can understand why Docker allows any base layer OS, but they could have made their own packages or limited a single distro and it would be easier to check for outdated packages and security issues in containers. The cgroups and Linux specific hooks keep Docker from being implemented natively anywhere else. The fact you have to share the entire Docker socket for containers to be abl…

We were using Docker-in-Docker in our cluster to run user-defined containers, and something about it resulted in the outer container disk usage blowing up to like 20GiB per container. I think something due to the overlay filesystem driver. We were under a time constraint so we just grew all the host root filesystems, but it was pretty inconvenient and not inexpensive to do so. I have to assume this also had a drastic…

Docker in Docker feels like a root kit generator to me

Re: Dissatisfied with Docker

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a feature by feature comparison of wasmer to docker? I don't think Wasmer, while interesting, is a container system. It looks more like a bytecode vm. Things I use and love from docker that to me feel "container"-y: 1. OSs as a library (FROM alpine:3.9) 2. Network namespaces so all applications think they are running on a machine with port 80 available 3. Service discovery through DNS 4. CPU and memory share…

Wasmer is an application-based container while Docker is a OS-based container. Because of that some of the things that you posted are a bit hard to compare. We believe that by having a VM (based on a industry adopted specification such as WebAssembly) we can control much more granularly both execution (CPU, memory) and the runtime interoperability with the system (networking, file system, ...), solving most of the is…

What's the selling point of Wasmer over the JVM or BEAM?
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