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Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

jeanhsu.com

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Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

#51

Post by mechanical_fish »

nuggien wrote: post #27
jasonyyun wrote: post #3

I don't want to start another topic, so I'll leave this - an excellent response from a user on Quora on the topic: http://www.quora.com/Parenting/Is-Amy-Chua-right-when-she-ex...

she seems to be blaming her mother for driving her sister towards depression and suicide. Kinda harsh. Could have been something else.

Not exactly. Depression killed her sister. She blames her mother for training her sister to hide that depression at all costs.

She may never know "why" the depression happened (as if there needs to be a reason) but unfortunately she probably has a pretty good idea of why her sister didn't turn to family for help.

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

#52

Post by lionhearted »

tastybites wrote: post #24

Just my couple of cents worth of first hand input... Most Chinese families aren't crazy-obsessed with achievement - I'd say about 1/4 of them exhibit this kind of insane behavior, but that's still a very, very high rate, which is where this stereotype comes from. The rest are similar to their high-achieving white counterpart families. Just as a data point, my two parents (two MDs and one PhD, yeah, it could have been…

> A not unrelated issue is the high rate of Asian American girls/women who refuse to date and marry Asian guys. It's so blindingly obvious as to why, I'm surprised anyone ever has to ask the question.

Y'know, I'm not so convinced that that's it. I think people of a different genetic background as ourselves are naturally appealing to some extent, but dating/marrying outside of any race is largely taboo. Asian woman/Caucasian man is socially acceptable right now, but I think a lot more of it is going to happen going forwards.

If China continues its ascendancy into an empire, I'd predict more Chinese man/Caucasian woman parings going forwards. The numbers already bare out that mixed race parings have been increasing at quite a high rate. With the skewed gender ratios, increasing Chinese wealth, and most likely international emergence of Chinese arts and culture and sex symbols... I think there's going to be a significant increase of Eastern European woman/Chinese man and Caucasian American/Chinese parings coming in the very near future.

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

#53

Post by felipe »

I am a western (Brazilian-American) living in China.

All this drilling and tests may sound crazy, but I do think it teaches an important value that is missing in the west's education: discipline

My wife is a teacher. She taught kids in the US (California) and here in China. One difference is that in the US a huge amount of her preparation time is spent on making lessons interesting to students, otherwise they disconnect. In China she is more focused on the lesson's subject matter, rather than tweaking the lesson for entertainment / attention value.

True, Chinese education does not value creativity or self-expression like in the west (and Chinese students are aware of that). But the lack of discipline is not the way to go IMO.

Jean Hsu's post is wonderful, by the way.

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

#54

Post by nimrody »

nsoonhui wrote: post #6

I hope I don't sound too racist or anti-Semite. Why is it that when a Jewish mother does the same as the Asian mother, no one complains? I'm a Chinese btw.

I wonder if this is partly due to these families growing their kids in a "foreign" country - Chinese in the US, Jews elsewhere.

These families feel their kids have to compete with the natives and may be at a disadvantage initially.

Once you get the safety of feeling at home -- this sort of behavior tends to disappear (Japan being the exception here.)

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

#55

Post by dheerosaur »

I came across http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan when I was reading about Japan on Wikipedia. It led me to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shame_society which says that the high suicide rate may be attributed to the societal structure. These societies set high standards for individuals and that may result in high performance from the society but, at the same time, may depress under-achievers to such an extent that people commit suicides.

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

#56

Post by jchonphoenix »

I'm not really sure whether to agree or disagree. I have asian parents and went through the whole ordeal.

I can honestly say that, as a kid, I didn't enjoy it, but then again, I can't imagine anyone would.

However, I definitely would not be as knowledgeable, intelligent, or well brought up without the asian schooling.

This article and most people against asian parenting's viewpoint is from the outsiders viewpoint. They all see the brutality of it and think "how could you treat your child like that." On the flipside however, it is undeniable that asians outperform westerners. Parenting likely has something to do with it.

I'm not saying one side is right or the other. I'm just noting that there's a statistical imbalance and unless we're all willing to admit asian genes are superior to all others, outside influence must be responsible and parenting/culture is the most likely culprit.

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

#57

Post by peteypao »

lionhearted wrote: post #46

A contrary viewpoint: After studying a number of different cultures and backgrounds and histories, I'm generally an admirer of the school of parenting laid out by Chua. Well, I think some of the more insulting/demeaning/negative-reinforcement isn't so great, but the overall focus on achievement and duty as superior to having fun... I do respect that. I'll explain why - I used to think the opposite until I read Andre…

Come on, now! Achievement and having fun aren't mutually exclusive, like you seem to believe. If anything, they should go hand-in-hand. In your world-view, you seem to believe that you either end up like Andrei Agassi, or some middle-aged loser.

I teach chess to this 12 year old Chinese boy. He clearly has zero interest in progressing his game. And yet, his mother is there, always pushing him senselessly into a vocation he will be, at best, mediocre. Their time (and money) would be better spent on finding something that the kid really enjoys.

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

#58

Post by chegra »

lionhearted wrote: post #46

A contrary viewpoint: After studying a number of different cultures and backgrounds and histories, I'm generally an admirer of the school of parenting laid out by Chua. Well, I think some of the more insulting/demeaning/negative-reinforcement isn't so great, but the overall focus on achievement and duty as superior to having fun... I do respect that. I'll explain why - I used to think the opposite until I read Andre…

What I think western culture values more is internal drive. Sure you can beat greatness out of someone or you can inspire it. Inspiration can be a hit or miss thing, but when it happens, it is a beautiful thing.

There are only a few top spots. Only so much space in Ivy league schools, so these other people are needful, and they should be allowed to have their own brand of self-actualization without being seen as inferior.

Success that can be counted, does not count. We should aim as a society to redefine success as something that everyone can attain, such as happiness, tranquility and good health.

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

#59

Post by lionhearted »

peteypao wrote: post #57
lionhearted wrote: post #46

A contrary viewpoint: After studying a number of different cultures and backgrounds and histories, I'm generally an admirer of the school of parenting laid out by Chua. Well, I think some of the more insulting/demeaning/negative-reinforcement isn't so great, but the overall focus on achievement and duty as superior to having fun... I do respect that. I'll explain why - I used to think the opposite until I read Andre…

Come on, now! Achievement and having fun aren't mutually exclusive, like you seem to believe. If anything, they should go hand-in-hand. In your world-view, you seem to believe that you either end up like Andrei Agassi, or some middle-aged loser. I teach chess to this 12 year old Chinese boy. He clearly has zero interest in progressing his game. And yet, his mother is there, always pushing him senselessly into a vocat…

> Come on, now! Achievement and having fun aren't mutually exclusive, like you seem to believe.

That's not what I said, not what I meant, and not what I believe... c'mon now, mis-summarizing someone's point of view leads to total breakdowns in communication. Let's not do that.

Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)

#60

Post by rgrieselhuber »

jchonphoenix wrote: post #56

I'm not really sure whether to agree or disagree. I have asian parents and went through the whole ordeal. I can honestly say that, as a kid, I didn't enjoy it, but then again, I can't imagine anyone would. However, I definitely would not be as knowledgeable, intelligent, or well brought up without the asian schooling. This article and most people against asian parenting's viewpoint is from the outsiders viewpoint. Th…

> it is undeniable that asians outperform westerners

[Citation needed]

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