In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default • Hacker News Board

Re: In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

#51

Post by hdfbdtbcdg » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 6:47 AM UTC

whalabi wrote: post #42

lrem wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at Google, but use Firefox for all my private things... Except when I run into a page that's broken in Firefox. And except when I need developer tools. And except when I need the browser to translate sites for me. And except when I'm shopping, as Google does a good enough job with payment details. And except Google properties, because who knows what weird HTTP 3.7 will Chrome use to save some ocean boiling?

I think Google has all these things because they have access to vastly more money and top tier developers than Mozilla. When you think about it, it's incredible that Firefox is as good as it is (same re Linux.) But obviously if Google wants to stay better than Firefox, whether it takes a year or a decade, they'll always be able to because they have an absurd amount of resources. So I wonder, what are Firefox's compet…

Firefox's killer feature remains what it always has been. It is a user agent that works for you the user not a third party.

Re: In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

#52

Post by 9HZZRfNlpR » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 6:47 AM UTC

buboard wrote: post #49

iliketosleep wrote: post #15

It's going to be interesting to see where this ends up. Ads are inevitable, and in some ways beneficial to both content providers and consumers (i.e. revenue can be earned from users without any direct payment). But are invasive forms of tracking such as 3rd party cookies really that necessary? Could websites survive using only contextual advertising without the excessive tracking?

Yes they can. Online advertising is on the rise. Businesses have been spending the same % in advertising for a century. If it is not possible to use trackers, businesses will keep spending the same, and advertisers should be paying out the same to publishers. The bigger question for me is why publisher payouts keep dropping even while online advertising spend is skyrocketing. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Rach…

Because Google and Facebook take the majority of that money, leaving the rest of the publishers less and less of that pie.

Re: In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

#53

Post by tannhaeuser » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 6:48 AM UTC

lrem wrote: post #24

shadykiller wrote: post #3

Switched to Firefox a few months back. Havn’t missed Chrome at all

I work at Google, but use Firefox for all my private things... Except when I run into a page that's broken in Firefox. And except when I need developer tools. And except when I need the browser to translate sites for me. And except when I'm shopping, as Google does a good enough job with payment details. And except Google properties, because who knows what weird HTTP 3.7 will Chrome use to save some ocean boiling?

That's great that you come out and openly say you're using FF for privacy!

> page that's broken in FF

I don't know any, and have used FF for as long as it exists. Could you give an example (or better yet, tell Mozilla via FF's built-in feedback)?

> developer tools

FF's devtools are far superior to Chrome's IMO for core web tech such as CSS debugging (Chrome is better for JavaScript debugging and profiling, that I'll give you)

> shopping

Y'know, not everybody is ok with Google knowing everything about us, including card details and purchases

> Google properties

That Google pushes GMail and YouTube users to use Chrome and boycots other browsers is hardly an argument (except for an antitrust case).

Re: In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

#54

Post by FreeHugs » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 6:52 AM UTC

As I understand it, they do not block the tracking scripts. What they do is that they do not accept their cookies.

This does not change anything for me:

1) I do not keep cookies around anyhow

2) I use umatrix to not run known evil scripts in the first place

I am not sure if it changes anything for the average user either. I would assume ad companies already use fingerprinting?

Re: In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

#55

Post by newscracker » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 6:54 AM UTC

Those who want a world where Firefox has a higher market share and mind share, please consider doing the following:

1. Evangelize Firefox to people you know any chance you get and show them all the reasons why its better than Chrome (focus on privacy as an important point). Show them how great browsing can be with a few key extensions (like uBlock Origin, Containers, Privacy Possum, etc.). This does not imply that Mozilla is beyond criticism or that Firefox should not be held to a higher standard.

2. If you can, donate money to Mozilla regularly. [1] As of a couple of years ago (IIRC), more than 90% of Mozilla's revenue was from its partnership with Google for being the default search engine in many geographies. As long as this remains true, Google will only tolerate Firefox being a viable competitor while Firefox still remains as small to moderately sized competition (to avoid antitrust action). If/when Firefox gains a much larger piece of the market, Google will (as it has been doing all these years) even more forcefully use its money and marketing muscle on all its properties as well as add more tiny annoyances on its properties to make Firefox seem buggy citing tangential things like "web standards" or "pushing the web forward" and other euphemisms that companies like Google use to crush competition.

IMO, there needs to be a lot more individual funding of Mozilla while keeping it accountable to users and as per its own manifesto. The level of competition among browsers right now leaves us all vulnerable.

Edit: After seeing a reply to this comment, I did a quick search and found that donating money to Mozilla means donating to the Mozilla Foundation, and that the money may not go to funding Firefox development, which is part of Mozilla Corporation. See this discussion from December 2018 on reddit. [2] It may be desirable for at least part of the donation (as decided by Mozilla Corporation) to go to Firefox development. Does it already happen that way or is there a way to get this result, like in the case of Mozilla Thunderbird where donations go to that project (alone)?

[1]: https://donate.mozilla.org

[2]: https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/a98gmi/donations_t...

Re: In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

#56

Post by BigJono » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 6:54 AM UTC

a_imho wrote: post #48

Fnoord wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree ads are beneficial for users (or "consumers" as you put it). They could be, but you pay with your focus/time. I'd rather pay for the content then, or get a free (demo) version (I regard a RSS feed as such). Tracking, however, is on the long term never beneficial for the users. It is a behemoth of a privacy nightmare. This article is about ad trackers .

It's something a person would say with a salary depending on ads. Who likes tracking and popups? TV programming butchered? Endless garbage in the mail? Come on.

I think it's the opposite. We're in a bubble here. It's easy enough for a software engineer to say they'd pay for the content that's on the web when we have the disposable income to do so without even breaking stride.

If you ask the average person whether they'd prefer to pay for web content or cop ads and trackers, they'd probably tell you to shove your subscription service or whatever alternative you can come up with up your ass.

Re: In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

#57

Post by skocznymroczny » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 6:56 AM UTC

newscracker wrote: post #55

Those who want a world where Firefox has a higher market share and mind share, please consider doing the following: 1. Evangelize Firefox to people you know any chance you get and show them all the reasons why its better than Chrome (focus on privacy as an important point). Show them how great browsing can be with a few key extensions (like uBlock Origin, Containers, Privacy Possum, etc.). This does not imply that Mo…

Is there some way to ensure the donation money will actually go to Firefox and not to some sort of "diversity" campaign?

Re: In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

#58

Post by onyva » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 6:59 AM UTC

tannhaeuser wrote: post #43

onyva wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ads are not of interest to users. I think their display is a waste of time and resources, as well as the risks associated. How blocking ads make a browser “misaligned” with users? It’s in fact the opposite. Brave is simply, like stated before, a Trojan Horse. Replacing google with another ad broker is not helping anyone. >> Brave browser (Stage 1) is a Trojan Horse for their actual business which is a blockchain-base…

For better or worse, ads are what finances the vast majority of online content out there. Even HN gets the occasional paid job posting, stripe (or other YC company) promo, etc., and I'm ok with it. For me, the problem isn't ads per se, but tracking and targetted ads which bring privacy invasion, monopolization, and security issues.

Which is not needed. Would love to see Breitbart, YouTube, Facebook and other similar hate-monetization platforms die. We don't have to commit collective social suicide in order to accommodate silicon valley.

Re: In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

#59

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 7:00 AM UTC

a_imho wrote: post #48

Fnoord wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree ads are beneficial for users (or "consumers" as you put it). They could be, but you pay with your focus/time. I'd rather pay for the content then, or get a free (demo) version (I regard a RSS feed as such). Tracking, however, is on the long term never beneficial for the users. It is a behemoth of a privacy nightmare. This article is about ad trackers .

It's something a person would say with a salary depending on ads. Who likes tracking and popups? TV programming butchered? Endless garbage in the mail? Come on.

In the same way that nobody likes taxes, traffic stops, or insurance salesmen, but almost anyone sees their necessity, things can be beneficial without being enjoyable.

Re: In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

#60

Post by lrem » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 7:01 AM UTC

whalabi wrote: post #42

lrem wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at Google, but use Firefox for all my private things... Except when I run into a page that's broken in Firefox. And except when I need developer tools. And except when I need the browser to translate sites for me. And except when I'm shopping, as Google does a good enough job with payment details. And except Google properties, because who knows what weird HTTP 3.7 will Chrome use to save some ocean boiling?

I think Google has all these things because they have access to vastly more money and top tier developers than Mozilla. When you think about it, it's incredible that Firefox is as good as it is (same re Linux.) But obviously if Google wants to stay better than Firefox, whether it takes a year or a decade, they'll always be able to because they have an absurd amount of resources. So I wonder, what are Firefox's compet…

Ideology: as a tech person, I don't want the protocols to be defined by a single entity. Many Googlers agree, even if we also know this could result in faster progress.

Less constraints: Firefox does not need to block release of a new feature because an Android API it depends on got blocked by legal due to regulations in Namibia.

Organisational stability: Firefox has a good revenue stream and stable leadership, with pretty constant direction.

Main competency: Firefox is the thing for Mozilla. For Google, Chrome is an insurance policy against Apple.