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Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

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Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#51

Good. Not only does this ensure that the students enjoy privacy, monitoring children in school with surveillance systems could have come straight out of foucault's discipline and punish. Maybe we should think about how we make schools spaces of freedom for our children rather than turning them into the next panopticon.

To be fair "checking attendance" fundamentally erodes privacy.

That's not the issue (at least as I see it).

The big questions in my head include "Who's storing the biometric data? How are they securing it? Who has authorized access to it, and what processes and mechanisms are n place to ensure they only use it in authorized ways? What are authorized uses of the data? How is it ensured that authorized uses will ot be increased in scope? What process or mechanisms are in place to detect attempts or successful cases of some authorized 3rd party obtaining that data? What penalties are there for unauthorized use of the data and to whom will they be applied? What penalties are there for inadequately securing the data and to whom will those be applied? What processes mechanisms or policies are in place to ensure unauthorized access or failures to secure the data are detected and disclosed? How are those processes mechanisms or policies measured to ensure they're working?"

Pretty much _anyone_ dealing with EU citizen's data should already have the answers to those (and related) questions written down. (If you do not, think about how sure you are that the answer to those " .. to whom will the penalty be applied?" questions will not be "Who's responsible for the data breach? Oh, that'd be Barrin from the dev team. Here, let me give you his full contact details and their HR file! BTW, they'll be fired and marched out before close of business, might be best if you call them on their personal cell phone."

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#52
post #2

> According to the DPA ruling, although the school secured parents' consent to monitor the students, the regulator did not feel that it was a legally adequate reason to collect such sensitive personal data. It’s this kind of second-guessing which is extremely concerning about GDPR-type regulation. Not that the information was not secure, or leaked, or mishandled, or consent wasn’t obtained, but even if all that is do…

> although the school secured parents' consent to monitor the students, the regulator did not feel that it was a legally adequate reason to collect such sensitive personal data.

But this is the exact kind of situation GDPR was designed to prevent. One in which the school obviously used its position to coerce consent, because that's not consent anymore. It means companies and institutions can't abuse their power to get consent for unnecessarily broad data collection. The law is absolutely crystal clear about this and spinning it as "second-guessing is concerning" is absurd. Any less onerous requirements would easily be loopholed and technicalitied to death because that's what companies and institutions do whenever they see the opportunity. If you're upset with GDPR, blame the companies who aren't respecting our rights.

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#53
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eyeball surveillance. I remember school. The teachers eyes were far more piercing than any camera. Seriously though, where exactly is the privacy if attendance is taken either way?

That depends on the person, who tracks attendance. If the teacher sells attendance reports (together with detailed lesson transcripts and audio recordings) to Google, Amazon, Netflix, US and Russian governments, all major data brokers and The USA Association of Rich Pedophiles, all at the same time — yes, there is no difference. Otherwise there is a substantial difference. It is amazing, that a person, directly repor…

Its alright if your job depends on that sort of business model.

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with the GDPR as worded and this ruling is that they remove the possibility of informed individual decisions. In this case it seems that all involved were informed and OK with it but that did not matter. I would also think that knowing where pupils are at all times is quite a legitimate aim for a school.

Recital 38: "Children merit specific protection with regard to their personal data, as they may be less aware of the risks, consequences and safeguards concerned and their rights in relation to the processing of personal data." Recital 43: "In order to ensure that consent is freely given, consent should not provide a valid legal ground for the processing of personal data in a specific case where there is a clear imba…

There were fined so it is established that they broke the law.

I am commenting on the spirit of the law itself. You're quoting it back to me but that's not the point. The point is to discuss what we think of those legal restrictions and whether there are restrictive. In fact, what you quoted reinforces my opinion that the GDPR are over-restrictive.

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with the GDPR as worded and this ruling is that they remove the possibility of informed individual decisions. In this case it seems that all involved were informed and OK with it but that did not matter. I would also think that knowing where pupils are at all times is quite a legitimate aim for a school.

Everybody was informed and OK.... Except for the students they tracked, nobody asked them. Sure, they are still minors, and it's up to the parents to decide what goes and what not. But by law the parents in Sweden (and a lot of other places around the world) have an obligation to act in the best interest of their children to their best ability. I'd argue exposing their children to mass surveillance in school and face…

This is turning into a religious war, with facial recognition being branded absolutely evil.

As I already wrote, I think that being able to locate pupils at all times is a legitimate concern for schools, and parents. Certainly schools already work hard to achieve this especially with younger children.

I think facial recognition can bring real benefits without many drawbacks if used properly.

An effective blanked ban is not productive or based on reason.

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#56
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with the GDPR as worded and this ruling is that they remove the possibility of informed individual decisions. In this case it seems that all involved were informed and OK with it but that did not matter. I would also think that knowing where pupils are at all times is quite a legitimate aim for a school.

Do you have any evidence that all parties provided informed consent? i.e. The consent form detailed out what could happen in the (somewhat likely) event the data is breached and how the data may be used? What other parties have access to the information and how that information is stored? How the information is transmitted? And they understood it all, with the attached implications? Considering the only words the per…

This is going over the top.

It was just about using facial recognition in a school, not about having brain implants in children...

Schools already have pictures and detailed personal details of all pupils.

This new technology can have real benefits. For example it could be used to locate a pupil that does not show up in class when they should, or to trigger an alert if a pupil leaves school when not expected to or when someone unknown is detected.

To me the law should protect but not prevent useful applications that people agree to, and I think that this specific case shows that, as they stand, the GDPR can be over-restrictive.

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#57
post #51

Good. Not only does this ensure that the students enjoy privacy, monitoring children in school with surveillance systems could have come straight out of foucault's discipline and punish. Maybe we should think about how we make schools spaces of freedom for our children rather than turning them into the next panopticon.

To be fair "checking attendance" fundamentally erodes privacy. That's not the issue (at least as I see it). The big questions in my head include "Who's storing the biometric data? How are they securing it? Who has authorized access to it, and what processes and mechanisms are n place to ensure they only use it in authorized ways? What are authorized uses of the data? How is it ensured that authorized uses will ot be…

Is that a thing, developers being personally responsible for the company that was not in compliance and that they, at some point, worked for?

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#58
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eyeball surveillance. I remember school. The teachers eyes were far more piercing than any camera. Seriously though, where exactly is the privacy if attendance is taken either way?

Yeah, people have always been scared of new technologies. When people are scared of a computer being able to do a task that is mundane for people (recognize someone) you can know it is just hysteria.

Damn, I didn't know people's memories could be archived and replayed.

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#59
post #27

Good! I was forced to use biometric data (fingerprint) to purchase food and read books in the library (yep) for seven years at my UK school. That was already too much. Facial recognition has zero place in a school.

The only time I liked to give my fingerprint is for the fitness lockers. Not needing a key or remember a pass code is great.

could wear a bracelet instead

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#60
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you think this is an appropriate use of facial recognition?

Speaking purely on the technical side of this problem: if you had to design a system to take attendance without some sort of human in the loop (e.g. a teacher), what other workable solutions are there? ID scanned by itself? A student could scan multiple IDs for their friends. ID + PIN? Due to the bursty nature of entering classrooms, that would cause a jam up at the PIN reader. Short of an ID shackle (that's a joke),…

When trying to design technical solutions, focusing purely on the technical side of the problem, without considering the other aspects, is what led to pervasive tracking and legislation against it in the first place.
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