Live data from Hacker News

Kubernetes Academy, a free product-agnostic education platform

kubernetes.academy

51–60 of 70 posts

Re: Kubernetes Academy, a free product-agnostic education platform

#51

The title implies that this is an education _platform_ - I was expecting something like Edx. I also don't understand the "product-agnostic" part. Isn't k8s a product? This looks like it's simply free k8s related course content.

> I also don't understand the "product-agnostic" part. Isn't k8s a product?

Product-agnostic meaning despite kubernetes.academy being provided by VMware it's not covering Project Pacific[1] or any other specific Kubernetes offering or integration by them or anyone else.

[1] https://blogs.vmware.com/vsphere/2019/08/introducing-project...

Re: Kubernetes Academy, a free product-agnostic education platform

#52

I wish more orgs would move over to orchestrating fleets of NixOS machines with NixOps. I can't overstate the benefits of truly immutable deployments. "Be this, machine, and be nothing else." Feels like DevOps championed the lowest common denominator. I have to deal with containers flipping out all the time because the distros running inside these containers were never intended to be what we demand them to be with or…

RancherOS/k3os and OpenShift/okd 4 are the more mainstream versions of this philosophy.

Re: Kubernetes Academy, a free product-agnostic education platform

#53
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lot of the core features of k8s and container orchestration is getting abstracted away I see this too and it worries me. You should rarely have to do this. CRDs tend to get overused. I'd encourage everyone to think twice before adding a custom controller. Vanilla k8s (with cloud-provider integration) is powerful, useful, and complex as it is.

Let me ask you a question if I may: I have a server app I’m running on k8s, it’s stateful and external users connect to it (over grpc). Users connect to a specific server which is identified by ID, this is important and can’t be easily rearchitected. I also expose an API to spin up servers for new ids which users can then connect to. At present I’m doing this by having my “controller” api (which is just an app runnin…

You may want to look into operators. It seems to address your requirements nicely.

Re: Kubernetes Academy, a free product-agnostic education platform

#54
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the feedback. I do not think that k8s is bad bet long term as you paint it to be. Of course it is less mature than AWS. But the point is 5 years from now. The problem with AWS is the price and the latency. Everything is fine until you get the bill. But by than you are completely locked to that architecture. The same apply to all the public cloud providers, not just AWS. So as I see it, for new applications…

I gotta ask, because now you're firmly in my backyard--what's the biggest cloud spend you've ever been in charge of? I ask because "Cloud costs" keeps coming up as this bugbear reason to use k8s and it isn't a real concern for the 99th percentile of applications. An application that's expensive when running directly against a cloud provider's APIs will remain expensive when running in k8s, if not moreso because of k8…

> I ask because "Cloud costs" keeps coming up as this bugbear reason to use k8s and it isn't a real concern for the 99th percentile of applications.

AWS VMs tend to cost between 3 to 4 times more than equivalent VMs offered by smaller no frills service providers such as Hetzner and Scaleway.

You may argue that you don't mind paying a hefty premium for a service that has plenty of competing offers, or that some high-level service provided by AWS is nice to have, but it's hard to argue in favour of needlessly spending 3 to 4 times as much to provide the same service, or get somewhere around 30% of the cloud computing resources for the same price tag.

Re: Kubernetes Academy, a free product-agnostic education platform

#55

I wish more orgs would move over to orchestrating fleets of NixOS machines with NixOps. I can't overstate the benefits of truly immutable deployments. "Be this, machine, and be nothing else." Feels like DevOps championed the lowest common denominator. I have to deal with containers flipping out all the time because the distros running inside these containers were never intended to be what we demand them to be with or…

I have immutability with Ubuntu.

https://godarch.com/

https://github.com/pauldotknopf/darch-recipes

Re: Kubernetes Academy, a free product-agnostic education platform

#56
To the site designer:

Please do not abuse radio buttons to pretend to be radio buttons in one place (only one selection allowed in a group) and checkboxes (multiple selections allowed in a group) in another place right below. Your assessment page [1] needs better UX on this.

It would also be good to state that the courses are all free in the content area visible in the viewport when the page loads. There's a "Sign up for free" button way below, but seeing that there's no "Pricing" link anywhere, I wasn't sure if all the courses are free or if courses in the future would become paid. Clarity on this would also help.

[1]: https://kubernetes.academy/assessment

Re: Kubernetes Academy, a free product-agnostic education platform

#57
post #37
post #3

Looks like this is all setup to get you to ultimately take some exam called the CKA

Hi! I manage Kubernetes Academy. We are not affiliated with the CKA Exam, and have no expectation for people to take it. Our team has received questions on how to best prepare for the exam, so we created a prep course. No strings attached.

I don't like to downplay such efforts (education in particular) but as a really big organization, who is putting its first foot out of the K8s door, this is a really lackluster approach. You basically have video lectures at this "academy". Not sure if you have noticed the scene out there but one can learn a whole lot more by reading and practicing on site like Katacoda then they would spending the time watching lectures on this site. In any case, VMware is a behemoth when it comes to VMs, and K8s is a match made in heaven for you (no big deal if you came late to the party, you'll be able to catch up better than anyone else - so goes the logic of course).

In my opinion, if you are honestly looking to educate, and it is not just a marketing, then look into delivering the education that is better than anyone else.

Re: Kubernetes Academy, a free product-agnostic education platform

#58

I wish more orgs would move over to orchestrating fleets of NixOS machines with NixOps. I can't overstate the benefits of truly immutable deployments. "Be this, machine, and be nothing else." Feels like DevOps championed the lowest common denominator. I have to deal with containers flipping out all the time because the distros running inside these containers were never intended to be what we demand them to be with or…

Or just use distribution packages.

Re: Kubernetes Academy, a free product-agnostic education platform

#59
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I gotta ask, because now you're firmly in my backyard--what's the biggest cloud spend you've ever been in charge of? I ask because "Cloud costs" keeps coming up as this bugbear reason to use k8s and it isn't a real concern for the 99th percentile of applications. An application that's expensive when running directly against a cloud provider's APIs will remain expensive when running in k8s, if not moreso because of k8…

Thanks again. So more expensive is on a relative basis and taking into account the egress traffic from the cloud. My workload involve training machine learning models and serving them. Training on the cloud is 20X more expensive, and you cannot use commodity GPU (banned by Nivdia). Moreover, My platform offer automl, which basically trade data scientist time for compute time. However, since I need to train 100's or 1…

> Training on the cloud is 20X more expensive, and you cannot use commodity GPU (banned by Nivdia).

Can you expand on this? What do you mean using commodity GPUs for training on the cloud is banned by Nvidia?

Re: Kubernetes Academy, a free product-agnostic education platform

#60
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I gotta ask, because now you're firmly in my backyard--what's the biggest cloud spend you've ever been in charge of? I ask because "Cloud costs" keeps coming up as this bugbear reason to use k8s and it isn't a real concern for the 99th percentile of applications. An application that's expensive when running directly against a cloud provider's APIs will remain expensive when running in k8s, if not moreso because of k8…

> I ask because "Cloud costs" keeps coming up as this bugbear reason to use k8s and it isn't a real concern for the 99th percentile of applications. AWS VMs tend to cost between 3 to 4 times more than equivalent VMs offered by smaller no frills service providers such as Hetzner and Scaleway. You may argue that you don't mind paying a hefty premium for a service that has plenty of competing offers, or that some high-l…

This post is exactly the sort of thing I see a lot. It belies inexperience with systems when they go bad. And systems basically always go bad. (I made a very good living off of that!)

You know what you don't get with a Hetzner--which is fine for what it is, this is impugning their customers and not them as a provider? You don't get the for-free metrics and alerting of an AWS. You don't get their sizing. You don't get their effectively-infinite inventory (EDIT: I was just reminded of a former employer who managed to make AWS tap out of a particular instance type in a region--how do you think Hetzner's gonna fare if you hit that kind of scale? Are you sure you built an effectively multi-region, multi-master system on your magic k8s cluster?). You don't software-driven infrastructure at every layer of your stack--sure, you get kubectl, now scale your cluster without waiting for hours for a human to rack a machine. Also without crossing your fingers every time.

(Scaleway is better about APIs and responsiveness, to their credit. But we're not out of the woods yet you are now the barrier to reliability and you're going to have to invent or duct-tape half of a cloud provider on your own to get something done. I too enjoy not doing things that help ship products, but not when I need money...)

You know what you do get, though? You get risk. You're worse at data integrity and backup than AWS is and Hetzner is worse at DR options than AWS; these are not exactly controversial statements, so I trust that you'll just go with it. But wait, there's more--you also get inflexibility. You get the risk of k8s itself--which is, let's be real, kind of a tire fire if you aren't Google, I've never seen a k8s shop of nontrivial size where something wasn't constantly alerting or broken. And you also get inefficiency. You get inefficiency of spend as you buy more hardware than you need and then pay the marginal cost of managing and alerting all of it, because you need overhead space--which is usually deadweight space--for when your hardware fails. (Because your hardware will fail, and you need a way to fail over.) And you get inefficiency of people; you get to waste the time of an expensive resource (or apply an incompetent one, which might be your thing but it sure isn't mine) reinventing the wheel over and over again. Sure, you can run a RabbitMQ instead of a SQS. I hope you know how to deal with its nonsense (I barely do, and I've run it at scale) and I hope you have an ironclad backup plan for it. And even when you do, you get the people-time inefficiency of building and maintaining and spending time and attention on things you get as part of your "hardware" spend with a full-featured cloud provider.

From all indications from over a hundred clients at sizes from five employees to fifty thousand, you probably are no exception to any of the above. And maybe I'm wrong about that, maybe you're the one exception who does. But I will always bet the other way, even when it's me and I know that I'm no slouch at this, and that's why I use AWS or GCP. (It doesn't hurt that, ultimately, it ends up being cheaper, both because I need fewer infrastructure/devops people to manage it and because I build systems that don't require one to run enormous servers--when you don't box yourself into the corner of "I need to run this big fat daemon all day long" you can spend remarkably little on AWS or GCP in the first place!

Maybe doing things the hard, slow, scary, and risky way is your thing, and you're willing to pay in time, effort, and risk rather than in money. But, one, it really isn't much money if you're running something successful, and two, it is downright disingenuous to imply that the spend is like-for-like.

Post reply on HN