Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I have a problem with React and spend a lot of time talking to my therapist

sonniesedge.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 67 posts

Re: I have a problem with React and spend a lot of time talking to my therapist

#51

Post by coldtea »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #20
k__ wrote: post #7

Someone wrongly accused a well known React dev of being a white supremacist for things that didn't happen. Now people are, rightfully, angered about the false accusations, but the accusers use this to say "see, we said you are toxic!" Guess we gonna have fallout from this bullshit a long time...

It seems like the well known React developer has a somewhat more ... illustrous ... history of questionable behavior, so while he may not be an actually white supremacist, he does seem to fit a certain toxic mold. On the other hand, the mentioned female developer has probably had quite a lot of such experiences with direct and indirect racism, perceived or actual, but either she kept quiet or it didn't blow up that m…

>so while he may not be an actually white supremacist, he does seem to fit a certain toxic mold.

E.g. person who doesn't agree with my favorite ideology on all its points?

Re: I have a problem with React and spend a lot of time talking to my therapist

#52

Post by coldtea »

layoutIfNeeded wrote: post #38
sweeneyrod wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you referring to the behaviour described here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g4oh2GGZOsucZfT1YJ5wjDUS... (for instance using the words "guys", "stupid" and "crazy") or something else?

The word “guys” means something bad in the U.S.? Sorry, English is not my native language, and I’m genuinely interested because I’ve been using this word quite often and didn’t know it’s offensive.

>The word “guys” means something bad in the U.S.?

Only among people who think just because everybody should change how they talk to accommodate their (frequently updated) ideologies...

Re: I have a problem with React and spend a lot of time talking to my therapist

#53

Post by coldtea »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #44
layoutIfNeeded wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see! I didn’t know this was the case in the US. I’ve checked my English dictionary and it says: >guys: Informal Persons of either sex. I guess it’s one of those differences between British and American English. Good to know, because it seems like one could easily get in trouble for using it incorrectly (in the British sense) in the US! Thanks!

Yes, this is country specific, and girls who take offense are primarily in the USA or have learned American English.

It's mostly people who look for reasons to be offended to validate themselves...

Re: I have a problem with React and spend a lot of time talking to my therapist

#54

Post by coldtea »

machinecontrol wrote: post #3

Serious, not intended to flame bait question: Why is race/gender featured so prominently in this technical post? Would it be appropriate to open a post with “black men in tech had a twitter meltdown”?

Because it's fashionable and scores you some points...

If the inverse became fashionable in 10 years, the same kind of people (if not the same people) would do a 180o.

Re: I have a problem with React and spend a lot of time talking to my therapist

#55

Post by mieseratte »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #30
mieseratte wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about this: value judgements based on race are bad. Full Stop. I will never understand this mindset that racism is only a problem if there is some nasty history involved.

Nasty history is quite often the difference between a racist value judgement and a relatively innocent statement about people. Racists can often behind ignoring that distinction. It's called a dog-whistle.

> Nasty history is quite often the difference between a racist value judgement and a relatively innocent statement about people.

One shouldn't use history to justify their own racism.

> Racists can often behind ignoring that distinction. It's called a dog-whistle.

That's simply not what a dog-whistle is.

Re: I have a problem with React and spend a lot of time talking to my therapist

#56

Post by azhu »

ramblerman wrote: post #17

> So, Reactgate has become a thing. What's been fomenting for a while blew up last week, with two prominent White Men In Tech having little tantrum Twitter breaks, and a wonderful woman of colour working as a dev/designer feeling she is no longer welcome in our industry and planning to leave as soon as it's financially possible. God. Its so creepy casually stereotyping people by their race and gender in this manner.…

While I agree with you that it's problematic, a minority woman stereotyping a white man is not quite the same as in reverse if you see relative social positioning as a first class factor. The reasoning for why it's different is something like the reasoning for why it's generally fine for employees to get together and casually bond over being annoyed by their bosses but the same thing going the other way would be obviously inappropriate. A lot of people experience being of minority race, gender, and culture as constructs that basically equate to having been born holding the short end of an implicit employee-boss relationship. As such, it's something that's naturally at the forefront of their minds.

Re: I have a problem with React and spend a lot of time talking to my therapist

#57

Post by azhu »

machinecontrol wrote: post #3

Serious, not intended to flame bait question: Why is race/gender featured so prominently in this technical post? Would it be appropriate to open a post with “black men in tech had a twitter meltdown”?

Because for some, race/gender is a primary factor in how they experience being a developer. I believe that is the fundamental point the article is making -- that the reasons why React is what it is today are not necessarily objective and totally sound but rather significantly influenced by what ideas and interests were already in the population at the cost of other ideas that may require more of a leap from the mainstream to fully understand but may also be better overall.

It would not be appropriate to post with the title “black men in tech had a twitter meltdown” but it is at least this okay with white dudes for the same reason why it's fine to make fun of The Mountain if he can't hit a squat in the gym but it's not fine to make fun of your buddy who's trying to make a change in his life. Of course how much better The Mountain is than your buddy at lifting heavy stuff is probably a larger discrepancy than the gap between white men and and minority women's abilities to affect the course of the developer landscape but that's the mechanism.

Re: I have a problem with React and spend a lot of time talking to my therapist

#58

Post by azhu »

coldtea wrote: post #54
machinecontrol wrote: post #3

Serious, not intended to flame bait question: Why is race/gender featured so prominently in this technical post? Would it be appropriate to open a post with “black men in tech had a twitter meltdown”?

Because it's fashionable and scores you some points... If the inverse became fashionable in 10 years, the same kind of people (if not the same people) would do a 180o.

The nature of progress is movement relative to the position currently being held. I bet you're right that a lot of people are just thoughtlessly bandwagoning, but I bet the blanket dismissal of progressive attitudes also misses a lot of people who are thoughtfully deciding where to go from here.

Re: I have a problem with React and spend a lot of time talking to my therapist

#59

Post by azhu »

quantummkv wrote: post #16

> In classic fashion, the most privileged 1% of developers (as in those with the most free time - young, white, able-bodied men) saw the newly released React and fell over themselves to be in on The Latest Interesting Technology. I am a brown guy in a 3rd world country who has been using react for long enough to be an early adopter. Reading this suddenly transformed me into a 6.6ft, white skinned, blue eyed Aryan wet…

Being brown in a white place is a different experience than being brown in a brown place. There is a lot of friction when different enough groups coexist. If you've ever found yourself in maybe a job or something where you thought differently enough from the people around you to feel like they were more interested in just maintaining their bubble of how they understand the world than discovering the best way to be, it's that same mechanism in action. Just it's blown up to much larger proportions since it's not just you differing with people who share your race, culture, ideas about how society should function, etc.

Re: I have a problem with React and spend a lot of time talking to my therapist

#60

Post by coldtea »

azhu wrote: post #58
coldtea wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's fashionable and scores you some points... If the inverse became fashionable in 10 years, the same kind of people (if not the same people) would do a 180o.

The nature of progress is movement relative to the position currently being held. I bet you're right that a lot of people are just thoughtlessly bandwagoning, but I bet the blanket dismissal of progressive attitudes also misses a lot of people who are thoughtfully deciding where to go from here.

My point though was not about the progressive attitudes, as much as about the ridiculous excess ("guys" being offensive, etc). In a decade or so these would be viewed the same way most people viewed hippies after the 70s...
Post reply on HN