What are children dying from and what can we do about it? • Hacker News Board

Re: What are children dying from and what can we do about it?

#51

Post by amelius » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 8:28 AM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #43

nostrademons wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this actually work cross-culturally? My understanding of advertising is that it relies very heavily on building associations between the product being advertised and existing positive social norms. The reason truck commercials in the U.S. always feature scruffy broad-chested men driving shiny vehicles across wide-open rugged terrain is because in the U.S. we have this cultural mythology about the frontier and co…

> Does this actually work cross-culturally? With a degree of care, yes. Major marketing and advertising agencies are perfectly au fait with these challenges, because they're responsible for multinational brands. A company like Coca-Cola or Procter & Gamble is very used to selling products to consumers in radically different cultural contexts, as are the agencies they employ. Marketing within the US is meaningfully cr…

marketing -> education

Re: What are children dying from and what can we do about it?

#52

Post by pvaldes » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 8:29 AM UTC

From the chart, it seems obvious that the old strategy of hide HIV and sexual transmission diseases under the rug, to protect the rights of the carriers, is not working at all. At least not for protecting "collateral damage" children.

Practically the Same children infected and killed by sexual transmission diseases in 2007 than in 1997. AIDS mortality has even increased. Same as 'iNTS' (what's this?)

There is a lot of room for improving in this cluster

Re: What are children dying from and what can we do about it?

#53

Post by pjc50 » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 8:41 AM UTC

sebazzz wrote: post #37

ummonk wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well not just children. E.g. the proportion of women needing c-sections is increasing. I don't think dependence on technology would improve human life in the long run, since the genetic maladaptation load would eventually overwhelm the ability of technology to keep up and we'd be back to where we started. But the key is that we're getting the ability to engage in genetic engineering, so realistically we should be app…

Isn't C-section for some people like a luxury to keep the body nice or something like that? Genuine question because I heard (yes, hearsay) that C-sections are for people in the USA like fashion? The again, I can't imagine any doctor, in my country at least, doing a C-section unless it is absolutely necessary.

This is a lie you have been told to prevent women getting medically necessary surgery. Probably told by the same people who tell lies about the abortion process.

There are lots of situations in which normal birth is unsafe for the baby - breech birth, cord strangulation, etc. There are also lots of situations where it is unsafe for the mother. It leaves a visible scar and requires a long recovery period.

Re: What are children dying from and what can we do about it?

#54

Post by pjc50 » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 8:42 AM UTC

lopmotr wrote: post #21

I have a pet theory that saving children from natural deaths is harmful to future generations. Surely by intervening so much, we're giving unhealthy people as much evolutionary advantage as healthy people. If the whole world reaches western standards of infant mortality and stays there long enough, will children eventually become dependent on even more interventions and be even more vulnerable to death without them?…

I wondered when we'd get someone saying "but do we even want to prevent the avoidable suffering and death of children?"

Re: What are children dying from and what can we do about it?

#55

Post by pvaldes » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 8:45 AM UTC

pvaldes wrote: post #52

From the chart, it seems obvious that the old strategy of hide HIV and sexual transmission diseases under the rug, to protect the rights of the carriers, is not working at all. At least not for protecting "collateral damage" children. Practically the Same children infected and killed by sexual transmission diseases in 2007 than in 1997. AIDS mortality has even increased. Same as 'iNTS' (what's this?) There is a lot o…

I answer myself, iNTS is Salmonella, pretty lethal in Africa and increasing

Re: What are children dying from and what can we do about it?

#56

Post by rjf72 » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 9:00 AM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #43

nostrademons wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this actually work cross-culturally? My understanding of advertising is that it relies very heavily on building associations between the product being advertised and existing positive social norms. The reason truck commercials in the U.S. always feature scruffy broad-chested men driving shiny vehicles across wide-open rugged terrain is because in the U.S. we have this cultural mythology about the frontier and co…

> Does this actually work cross-culturally? With a degree of care, yes. Major marketing and advertising agencies are perfectly au fait with these challenges, because they're responsible for multinational brands. A company like Coca-Cola or Procter & Gamble is very used to selling products to consumers in radically different cultural contexts, as are the agencies they employ. Marketing within the US is meaningfully cr…

To emphasize the flaws of this argument, flip it around. You are effectively arguing that you can change the views, values, and beliefs of an entire nation by marketing. This doesn't sound so unreasonable when it's an 'us vs them' because it's easy to underestimate others. So instead let's make it a 'them vs us' argument.

If what you're saying is accurate then similarly you ought be able to radically shift the views, values, and beliefs of America using marketing. Saudi Arabia has a surplus of money. They'd certainly love to spread their cultural values. Perhaps all they need to do to, for instance, get American women to start dressing 'modestly', as they define it, or American men to ostensibly abstain from alcohol and porn would be to spam Americans with advertising for such?

I'm sure you'd agree such notions are quite absurd. Marketing appeals to cultural values, it doesn't define them. I think the one thing that can make this somewhat confusing is that in certain segments of society, consumerism is itself a cultural value. And as advertising feeds heavily off of this, it can blur the relationship. But this goes back to times before modern marketing even existed. For instance the connection between royalty across the world and the color purple was driven exclusively by the fact that purple dyes, Tyrian purple in particular, were extremely rare. There was no purple marketing agency, just people defining and displaying themselves in terms of having things that others could not.

Re: What are children dying from and what can we do about it?

#57

Post by lopmotr » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 9:41 AM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #54

lopmotr wrote: post #21

I have a pet theory that saving children from natural deaths is harmful to future generations. Surely by intervening so much, we're giving unhealthy people as much evolutionary advantage as healthy people. If the whole world reaches western standards of infant mortality and stays there long enough, will children eventually become dependent on even more interventions and be even more vulnerable to death without them?…

I wondered when we'd get someone saying "but do we even want to prevent the avoidable suffering and death of children?"

If you're offended by questions, that suggests you have faith but not confidence. Sometimes the answer isn't so great like "shouldn't we use the most powerful antibiotics available in every case to maximize each patient's chances?" or any other utility maximization, really. It can all have negative consequences.

Re: What are children dying from and what can we do about it?

#58

Post by chrisweekly » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 11:27 AM UTC

raxxorrax wrote: post #50

jdietrich wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does this actually work cross-culturally? With a degree of care, yes. Major marketing and advertising agencies are perfectly au fait with these challenges, because they're responsible for multinational brands. A company like Coca-Cola or Procter & Gamble is very used to selling products to consumers in radically different cultural contexts, as are the agencies they employ. Marketing within the US is meaningfully cr…

That sounds a bit like marketing for marketing. I do think marketing agencies actually did loose a lot of influence in recent years. 15 years ago nearly everyone could hum the latest jingle from the newest ads and influence was indeed profound. But these times are long gone. Today there are many channels for cutural exchange that don't transport marketing messages.

15 years ago, western culture was substantially more monolithic, with much more centralized distribution channels, in comparison to the increasingly balkanized and fragmented niches that abound today.

Re: What are children dying from and what can we do about it?

#59

Post by Arbalest » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 11:31 AM UTC

rjf72 wrote: post #56

jdietrich wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does this actually work cross-culturally? With a degree of care, yes. Major marketing and advertising agencies are perfectly au fait with these challenges, because they're responsible for multinational brands. A company like Coca-Cola or Procter & Gamble is very used to selling products to consumers in radically different cultural contexts, as are the agencies they employ. Marketing within the US is meaningfully cr…

To emphasize the flaws of this argument, flip it around. You are effectively arguing that you can change the views, values, and beliefs of an entire nation by marketing. This doesn't sound so unreasonable when it's an 'us vs them' because it's easy to underestimate others. So instead let's make it a 'them vs us' argument. If what you're saying is accurate then similarly you ought be able to radically shift the views,…

With enough time and money, I don't see why this is out of the question. Time already changes all norms, so the money just speeds things up. I can absolutely see my society being changed, and I along with it. Smoking has had buckets of money thrown at it to hold it afloat for a long bloody time, but it has only taken 30 odd years to really cast it as being shunned by consistent government health campaigns (Australian perspective here, but we're seeing it elsewhere as well).

Re: What are children dying from and what can we do about it?

#60

Post by pvaldes » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 11:32 AM UTC

liability wrote: post #45

geargrinder wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a slippery slope. Who gets to decide who lives and who dies? Who should we abort or sterilize? We all suffer to some degree, then we all die. It's the human condition.

> Who gets to decide who lives and who dies? Doctors do all the time, they even have their own word for it: triage. When resources are insufficient to cover the needs of everybody, difficult decisions need to be made. Or as the case may be, easy decisions...

Is a decission reserved to parents, in this case. Triage is a term that aim to save the maximum number of people in disasters with many victims. Not to decide if somebody dies or lives.

People is classified in colors black, red, etc after its state. If you are in an accident and you cry and shout repeatedly you are classified in a lower priority than the quiet person that do not moves.