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Cruise-line companies are building private Caribbean play zones

economist.com

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Re: Cruise-line companies are building private Caribbean play zones

#51

Post by sdoering »

benj111 wrote: post #37
ainiriand wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, most of them are full board. But you just don't want to go back to the ship only for lunch, so you have lunch in the city, where you can have a taste of the local cuisine.

Potentially. I suspect there's a lot of cultural and generational norms wrapped up in that though. A ship full of Swedes may prefer to return to the boat to eat, a ship full of Spaniards may all want 3 course meals on land, that just makes it harder for the host city to predict demand.

At least for the Company I worked for - most people left on "harbor days". Be it for guided tours, beach days or other events or just plain "I am exploring on my own". Most have to be back in the late afternoon/early evening - so that the cruise-liner can depart on time.

So at least for this company most people did not incur food costs on board for lunch (non the less having paid for it with the package deal).

Re: Cruise-line companies are building private Caribbean play zones

#52

Post by sdoering »

lopmotr wrote: post #15
sdoering wrote: post #14

I once worked for a Cruise Company for some months. I really am shocked at how naive I was back then, when I applied and worked there. Back then I had no idea how bad this form of travel is for the environment, for the visited cities, for the people working below deck, and so on. The people I worked with in the main office of the company were really energetic, loved their product, had a great time launching ship afte…

If you had the power, would you fire them and be the one to give them their notice in person? If they asked why, what would you tell them? "For your own good"?

Nice straw-man you present here. Or did I anywhere imply what words you try to put in my mouth?

Someone could for example give them the same working protections offered by a German contract. The same work hours. Same wages?

Someone would not have to let them go.

Re: Cruise-line companies are building private Caribbean play zones

#54

Post by amalag »

sdoering wrote: post #14

I once worked for a Cruise Company for some months. I really am shocked at how naive I was back then, when I applied and worked there. Back then I had no idea how bad this form of travel is for the environment, for the visited cities, for the people working below deck, and so on. The people I worked with in the main office of the company were really energetic, loved their product, had a great time launching ship afte…

I met a cruise ship worker from Bali who started staying in the USA illegally because it pays more than the cruise ship. He works in some restaurant and will just keep doing it until he is caught or he wants to get married. Then he will return to his home country. In the mean time he is sending money back home for his family and sister's education.

Re: Cruise-line companies are building private Caribbean play zones

#55

Post by rumanator »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #44
fasicle wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"How bad this form of travel is for... the visited cities" I was holidaying in Split, Croatia when the MS Queen Elizabeth [1] docked and thousands of people descended onto the city from it. The quiet city became absolutely packed with tour groups from the ship, completely ruined the atmosphere. I guess the cruise tourists do bring in quite a bit of money from eating in the restaurants, buying souvenirs etc, so not th…

> I guess the cruise tourists do bring in quite a bit of money from eating in the restaurants, buying souvenirs etc, so not that much of a negative for the locals. "Locals" aren't a homogenous group. The city budget does benefit, and so do people working in businesses serving tourists directly - restaurants, gift shops, hotels, ticket offices, etc. Everyone else hates it. Tourism, especially of intermittent kind, dis…

It's also somewhat ironic that a tourist complained that other tourists ruined the vibe once they've arrived, and concluded that everyone else but him was the problem.

Meanwhile, no word from the locals who are living their life catering to those tourists.

Re: Cruise-line companies are building private Caribbean play zones

#56

Post by sct202 »

rumanator wrote: post #55
TeMPOraL wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess the cruise tourists do bring in quite a bit of money from eating in the restaurants, buying souvenirs etc, so not that much of a negative for the locals. "Locals" aren't a homogenous group. The city budget does benefit, and so do people working in businesses serving tourists directly - restaurants, gift shops, hotels, ticket offices, etc. Everyone else hates it. Tourism, especially of intermittent kind, dis…

It's also somewhat ironic that a tourist complained that other tourists ruined the vibe once they've arrived, and concluded that everyone else but him was the problem. Meanwhile, no word from the locals who are living their life catering to those tourists.

There are so many people in this thread and other like it doing the exact same thing. There was a thread a few months ago about Venetian people getting priced out by airBnbs taking over all the housing and destroying the culture, but the chief complaints on HN were from other tourists complaining about cruise goers crowding up the sites.

Re: Cruise-line companies are building private Caribbean play zones

#57

Post by [deleted] »

laumars wrote: post #10
conjectures wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also c.f. Venice.

Coincidentally I was in Venice for the first time 2 weeks ago. Absolutely beautiful place and I 100% agree with the locals complaints about cruise ships - it really does ruin the touristy parts of Venice. Thankfully you don't need to walk far to get a more authentic Venetian experience.

[deleted]

Re: Cruise-line companies are building private Caribbean play zones

#58

Post by staticautomatic »

Nokinside wrote: post #20
sdoering wrote: post #14

I once worked for a Cruise Company for some months. I really am shocked at how naive I was back then, when I applied and worked there. Back then I had no idea how bad this form of travel is for the environment, for the visited cities, for the people working below deck, and so on. The people I worked with in the main office of the company were really energetic, loved their product, had a great time launching ship afte…

First word, third world clash in the service industry is real but you should not react with emotion only. What you need to consider is the opportunity cost for those workers. Opportunity cost = (return of best alternative not taken) - (return of a chosen option). If the work at cruise company is the best opportunity for the low paid Filipino worker, you should just be generally horrified how hard the life in third wo…

"pure exploitation and abuse" happens to foreign cruise ship workers all the time and is exceptionally well documented.

Re: Cruise-line companies are building private Caribbean play zones

#59

Post by bliblah »

sdoering wrote: post #14

I once worked for a Cruise Company for some months. I really am shocked at how naive I was back then, when I applied and worked there. Back then I had no idea how bad this form of travel is for the environment, for the visited cities, for the people working below deck, and so on. The people I worked with in the main office of the company were really energetic, loved their product, had a great time launching ship afte…

A few years ago me and my parents wanted to take a cruise in the Baltic making several 1-2 day stops and I have to say I felt the same way.

The ship was massive and had pools, a restaurant, live entertainment but it was obvious that all the people who were employed were semi indentured servants.

Most were from southeast asia and worked 6-8 months away from their families. What broke my heart is that only a small portion could leave the ship whenever we docked and most didn't seem to have passports that allowed entry to European countries without visa so they would just wait in the dock and use up the wifi to face time their spouses and children. Except the wife was really bad and the bandwidth quickly peaked and most were left just being miserable.

It was nice being able to visit all these countries that would otherwise have cost a fortune but man the pure human suffering really broke me.

Re: Cruise-line companies are building private Caribbean play zones

#60

Post by lopmotr »

sdoering wrote: post #52
lopmotr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you had the power, would you fire them and be the one to give them their notice in person? If they asked why, what would you tell them? "For your own good"?

Nice straw-man you present here. Or did I anywhere imply what words you try to put in my mouth? Someone could for example give them the same working protections offered by a German contract. The same work hours. Same wages? Someone would not have to let them go.

So you're happier that they were employed by the cruise line at all, but preferred they they be given more? I see. Giving them more than their market value is like charity. So perhaps my question should be "Would you give part of your salary to them?" Did you? It's easy to ask someone else to give charity but surely if you really mean it, you'd do it yourself first.

Though you did say "I was so abusing the lower deck people" which, given you didn't want to fire them, implies their normal life would have been even more abusive. So wasn't your company actually helping them already? Isn't that something to feel good about? You were making their lives better. Not as good as your own, but why is that the standard?

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