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YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

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Re: YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

#51

Have a look at Rick Beato on Youtube

Why?

He does fairly deep analysis of recording techniques and music theory on his channel. He claims that even playing a few bars of music from certain artists himself on an acoustic or electric guitar will cause his videos to become de-monetized.

Re: YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

#52
post #21

It's ironic that a system of rules (DMCA) that was designed to help performers not lose revenue is actually causing a performer to lose revenue. Rousseau is one of the most recognised pianists on YouTube. He works tirelessly to perform a new piece about every week. This must be incredibly tiring, and the skill required to be able to do that week in, week out, is absolutely breathtaking. If anyone deserves to be made…

The DMCA is for publishers, not creators. If Rousseau would just conform to the system and give a publisher a cut everything would be fine. Independent creators have always been the enemy. Edit: I am being completely sarcastic w/ respect to the second sentence. I believe that there are people (those who are enriched by the current copyright system) who do believe that, though.

I assume you are being facetious. Rousseau doesn't owe anything to any publisher. Just checking you understood this.

Re: YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

#53
post #28

The big problem with classical music is that the compositions are all in public domain, however most performances are not. Given the subtle differences between performances, algorithms are not smart enough to figure out the difference. In fact, even humans would have a hard time to distinguish between two performances of certain classical pieces.

Yes! And Kubrick knew this: for "2001: A Space Odyssey" he bought the right of "Also Sprach Zarathustra" directed by Böhm and replaced it at the last minute by the one directed by Karajan hoping no one would notice.

Citation? That doesn't seem to match the story as given in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001:_A_Space_Odyssey_(soundtr..., for example.

Re: YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

#54
post #21

It's ironic that a system of rules (DMCA) that was designed to help performers not lose revenue is actually causing a performer to lose revenue. Rousseau is one of the most recognised pianists on YouTube. He works tirelessly to perform a new piece about every week. This must be incredibly tiring, and the skill required to be able to do that week in, week out, is absolutely breathtaking. If anyone deserves to be made…

The DMCA is for publishers, not creators. If Rousseau would just conform to the system and give a publisher a cut everything would be fine. Independent creators have always been the enemy. Edit: I am being completely sarcastic w/ respect to the second sentence. I believe that there are people (those who are enriched by the current copyright system) who do believe that, though.

The publisher is not entitled to that cut. In fact this doesnt involve the DCMA at all but YouTube's own process.

Re: YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

#55

Content ID is never going to be perfect (so there always needs to be an appeal mechanism). But I'd always expected that false matches would be due to some kind of hash collision, not different recordings of the same piece. Because YouTube doesn't know what the composition is, it only compares to other performances (which are under copyright). And the fact that two different pianists could interpret and perform a work…

Hash collisions? No, I don't think you understand how these content matching systems work.

Re: YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

#56

https://twitter.com/hyperionrecords/status/11623845149849477... From @hyperionrecords regarding a recent unrelated incident. Hyperion's content is the one making the claim against Rousseau's video. They seem aware that ContentID often misidentifies claims, but there doesn't seem to be a public statement on what they proactively can or will do to help fix it.

I'm not sure what to fix. Let's give the benefit of the doubt to Google and say they're constantly revising their algorithms; even then, due to the sheer amount of video uploaded to YouTube every day, there will be some of them that are misidentified, it's simply unavoidable IMHO. I think the improvement can be made on the smoothness and speed of disputing/reviewing these claim, though. This process should be as shor…

It's an entire genre that ContentID is incompatible with.

Re: YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

#57
post #27
post #21

It's ironic that a system of rules (DMCA) that was designed to help performers not lose revenue is actually causing a performer to lose revenue. Rousseau is one of the most recognised pianists on YouTube. He works tirelessly to perform a new piece about every week. This must be incredibly tiring, and the skill required to be able to do that week in, week out, is absolutely breathtaking. If anyone deserves to be made…

Content ID is not the DMCA. Content ID got it wrong here, and that happens all the time. It's not a big deal for the claimer. Which is totally contrary to how DMCA works, if someone makes a wrong claim there it gets very expensive for them. Youtube could easily copy that aspect of the DMCA and make it very expensive for mis-claimers, and easy to counteract automatic mis-classification. That they don't has nothing dir…

This is everything to do with the DMCA. YouTube claims it is required by law to take down content that receives a takedown notice. That law is the DMCA. Edit: I'm probably wrong. It seems a claimant can also issue a block. They do not have to issue a takedown notice. That seems to be the problem right there!!

(However) I find it really difficult to believe the claimant in this case has no control over what YouTube does, as they have previously claimed. It may have been Content ID that got the identification wrong, but the claimant should not issue a block if it is a false claim.

Anyhow, Rousseau found a way around it by uploading a new version that received a copyright claim from a different company, instead of a block. He'll still have to go through the dispute process, at least we can watch the video because YouTube is not obliged to (and does not) take down the video.

Re: YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

#58

The big problem with classical music is that the compositions are all in public domain, however most performances are not. Given the subtle differences between performances, algorithms are not smart enough to figure out the difference. In fact, even humans would have a hard time to distinguish between two performances of certain classical pieces.

I don't think it's so much that the algorithms aren't smart enough to tell, it's that Google have had to make the algorithm still match in the case of people altering music with filters/effects, time stretching, pitch shifting etc. - so it's been made deliberately a lot less sensitive to most of the factors that a musician brings into their interpretation.

That's fine - it's probably necessary for Google to not be constantly dragged into the courts by actual infringement slipping through with small alterations. The issue is that there is absolutely no recourse for an incorrect match. There's no option to say 'no, the algorithm is wrong' or 'the claimant has made a false claim' - the nearest option is to claim fair use, and that kicks it back to the claimant to be able to lie again if it was fraudulent, with no fear of consequences.

There needs to be some process where it can be appealed to a human. I think the best way I have seen suggested is to stake a small amount of money on it to have somebody review it - say, $15 from each party, and then you lose it if it's ruled against you, or get a refund if you win. That should easily pay for half an hour of somebody's time, so they could hire staff to do it.

If the claimant lost and still didn't agree, it could be escalated to DMCA, where there are potential penalties for fraudulent claims (even if it doesn't happen much).

Re: YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

#59

I used to use music from musopen.org that contains recordings that are either public domain or creative commons, typically from the Air Force band, or various small town orchestras or college or even high school orchestras for background music for my little space game videos, but dealing with the copyright claims became too much of a hassle, so now I just rapidly strum some chords on an acoustic guitar and run it thr…

Yeah, I do the same thing with my Korg Kaossilator. For ~$100 (I have the original, not the updated one), you get a phrase sequencer that just about anyone can learn enough in about an hour to be able to generate their own ambient music.

I feel like music education for children starting with pianos, guitars, and recorders is backwards. Get them playing music first. The interest in instruments will come.

Re: YouTube blocks recording of public domain Schubert/Liszt composition

#60
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DMCA is for publishers, not creators. If Rousseau would just conform to the system and give a publisher a cut everything would be fine. Independent creators have always been the enemy. Edit: I am being completely sarcastic w/ respect to the second sentence. I believe that there are people (those who are enriched by the current copyright system) who do believe that, though.

I assume you are being facetious. Rousseau doesn't owe anything to any publisher. Just checking you understood this.

I am being facetious, but I daresay a lot of people who work in the publishing industry sincerely believe that viewpoint.

I believe we're living in a time when publishers are becoming increasingly irrelevant. They're clawing onto anything they can to retain their position as middlemen and as a tax on commerce.

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