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Productivity and the Workweek (2000)

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Re: Productivity and the Workweek (2000)

#51

Post by antisemiotic »

Mtinie wrote: post #41
frosted-flakes wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be productive, but you can't produce 6 hours a day from nothing.

—— For immediate release. CERN is proud to announce it will resume LHC operations shortly after a major system sensitivity upgrade and is poised to launch a new set of tests on behalf of their corporate donors. This year marks the first time scientists will seek proof of the (not-yet-)theorized “anti-second”. According to the head of the program, Dr. Ismadeup: “When the efforts of our labors are successful, the rules…

Finally I can ditch the portable black hole I was using for work hour dilatation.

Re: Productivity and the Workweek (2000)

#52

Post by JulianMorrison »

Lewton wrote: post #33
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I also see this issue. It's made worse by Agile/Scrum that assumes during the planning poker meeting that every dev has 8 hours per day available of constant flow while the real value being maybe 5-6 if you're lucky so you end up cutting corners or burned out due to the stress of meeting the target velocity.

Not an inherent agile/scrum problem, we assume 6 hours availability per day during planning in my team

Which is still about 3 more than reality

Re: Productivity and the Workweek (2000)

#53

Post by JulianMorrison »

firepoet wrote: post #15

The interesting thing is that wages have remained stagnant as productivity has increased dramatically. Which means that our labor has been valued less over time. What needs to happen is that the work week shortens while the minimum wage increases in kind. Top execs need to be comfortable making less, as they are the only ones profiting off these productivity increases.

People need to start seeing the value of unions again.

Re: Productivity and the Workweek (2000)

#54

Post by skocznymroczny »

UglyToad wrote: post #21

I'd be interested to know if other software developers feel their current working hours are good/positive? From feedback I've had I'm generally regarded as pretty good at my job and highly productive but my current working hours leave me completely drained, to the point I go home and collapse on the sofa, make dinner and go to bed. And that's off an 8.5 hour day. It's at the point now where it's extremely likely I'll…

10 hour day would be great, because if I am already at work, it doesn't matter much if I stay for 8 or 10 hours. But I'd rather work 4 x 10 than 5 x 8. That one extra day would go a long way.

Re: Productivity and the Workweek (2000)

#55

Post by Chris2048 »

Lewton wrote: post #33
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I also see this issue. It's made worse by Agile/Scrum that assumes during the planning poker meeting that every dev has 8 hours per day available of constant flow while the real value being maybe 5-6 if you're lucky so you end up cutting corners or burned out due to the stress of meeting the target velocity.

Not an inherent agile/scrum problem, we assume 6 hours availability per day during planning in my team

We assume 4 hrs, that not only accounts for meetings, breaks etc, but also allows people time to help each other with unscheduled support/help/discussion.

Re: Productivity and the Workweek (2000)

#56

Post by yodsanklai »

UglyToad wrote: post #21

I'd be interested to know if other software developers feel their current working hours are good/positive? From feedback I've had I'm generally regarded as pretty good at my job and highly productive but my current working hours leave me completely drained, to the point I go home and collapse on the sofa, make dinner and go to bed. And that's off an 8.5 hour day. It's at the point now where it's extremely likely I'll…

For me, it tends to be "all or nothing". I may be totally obsessed by my project, from the moment I wake up until I go to bed. I want to see it working, or complete a last feature, or a cool refactoring. I agree it's draining and not healthy but I feel I don't get much done if I only work a few hours. Besides, sometimes it takes time to warm up, and I don't want to break the flow.

Alternatively, I can be disinterested and I will be slacking for some period of times, could be weeks. I would add some doc here and there, fix a few bugs, discuss with colleagues, learn about new techs. But then, I feel guilty and anxious and overall not happy.

I wish I was able to be motivated everyday, work 7 hours of productive work and call it a day.

I haven't found a working mode where I feel productive and motivated for long period of times.

Re: Productivity and the Workweek (2000)

#57

Post by matwood »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #26
UglyToad wrote: post #21

I'd be interested to know if other software developers feel their current working hours are good/positive? From feedback I've had I'm generally regarded as pretty good at my job and highly productive but my current working hours leave me completely drained, to the point I go home and collapse on the sofa, make dinner and go to bed. And that's off an 8.5 hour day. It's at the point now where it's extremely likely I'll…

Yeah, I also see this issue. It's made worse by Agile/Scrum that assumes during the planning poker meeting that every dev has 8 hours per day available of constant flow while the real value being maybe 5-6 if you're lucky so you end up cutting corners or burned out due to the stress of meeting the target velocity.

> planning poker meeting that every dev has 8 hours

You shouldn't be talking about hours at all. Points and team velocity help to account for all the overhead in a sprint. Once a team has a consistent velocity, they can talk about items in retro to speed up that velocity (drop a meeting, etc...).

I once had a manager who tried to break tasks down into 15 minute increments. There was a task that he argued was a 15 minute task. And yes, he was right assuming my computer was open, the right editor was up, the right project was pulled and up to date, the project was properly building, there were no updates to apply, and the list goes on.

Hours is just a bad way to plan. Unfortunately those who bill by hour are forced to plan that way.

Re: Productivity and the Workweek (2000)

#58

Post by jswet »

“Productivity” means something very different for assembly line workers than it does for retail workers. As productivity has improved over time, we actually have seen the expected reduction of hours, but it varies by occupation. A much smaller number of people work in manufacturing now, while the ranks of retail and white collar workers have grown. People are moving towards occupations where “productivity” is harder to gauge and not necessarily the most important metric at all times. The increase in productivity in some sectors and the migration of workers to new sectors are broadly related, too, since the former requires technological advance, which is the result of cognitive work and creates more need for white collar and cognitive work.

Re: Productivity and the Workweek (2000)

#59

Post by ckosidows »

UglyToad wrote: post #21

I'd be interested to know if other software developers feel their current working hours are good/positive? From feedback I've had I'm generally regarded as pretty good at my job and highly productive but my current working hours leave me completely drained, to the point I go home and collapse on the sofa, make dinner and go to bed. And that's off an 8.5 hour day. It's at the point now where it's extremely likely I'll…

I feel the exact same way. I come home and exercise and make food and I feel just beat. All I want to do is sleep by 9pm. I wish I had a few extra hours a day to study or spend time on leisure activities. As it is I study or read until it's time to sleep and if I want to spend time with friends something has to fall off my schedule even though I sit at work and try to look busy most days.

Once my work in a sprint is done my anxiety increases because now I don't know what to do and I'm considered lazy if I can't come up with some fascinating thing to produce. That's the most mentally draining aspect for me.

Re: Productivity and the Workweek (2000)

#60

Post by Expez »

I work 60% now. Instead of having two days off each week I've opted to work 4.5h each day. I can only focus intensely for about 4h each day on coding, so this works out well.

It's always been this way for me and to get to 8 hours I'd go through the logs each day (important, but not taxing at all and something better left to an intern most of the time) and attend much more meetings (low intensity but 90% of them were completely pointless) as well as take more breaks for stuff like hn.

I'd guess that I'm producing about 90% of the value I used to, but putting in way less hours. This isn't a bad deal for my employer, I think.

The pay cut kind of sucks, but I'm still making the national median salary because developers are paid so generously.

A lot of people opt to take whole days off, when they work less hours, but I find this arrangement works much better for me. It gives me more time for hobbies, friends and family, working out, eating healthy etc in the day-to-day.

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