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Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

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Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#51
post #20

Brasil needs to be heavily sanctioned by the international community, I'm talking Cuba-level stuff if we want to even have a chance at stopping the rise above 2 degrees, we only have 12 years which means that it's already probably too late. More worrying is the rise of populism in the world supported by fake news, ignorance and social media that led to this. How did someone as ignorant as Bolsonaro ever managed to ge…

it would be more effectiveif the northern hemisphere started paying a rainforest tax to the southern as proposed by the likes of prince charles

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#52
post #2

> 1 hour ago > 0 comments on HN I wonder what would happen if this was a paul graham shitpost. :) Also so sad to see this happening, we are all responsible, it's not Brazil's responsibility, it's World's responsibility to take care of nature.

Even as a Brazilian I have to agree with the comments stating that it's our responsibility to take care of our part of the Amazon. Unfortunately, people chose to elect an awful president and there's nothing we can do about it other than protest. Bolsonaro is the worst leader this country has ever had since the military dictatorship.

> Bolsonaro is the worst leader this country has ever had since the military dictatorship.

The military dictatorship's human rights record was horrible and perverse, but at least they had better technical management and were nationalists. It's crazy we're down to the level of saying "well, but at least" when talking about the military dictatorship, but it is what it is.

Embrapa, Embraer, Petrobras, Eletrobras, the Rio - Niterói bridge, the nuclear power plants in Angra dos Reis, the nuclear power plant in Itaipu, the satellite launch station in Alcântara, among many others, were investments of the military dictatorship.

The current guy on the other is an entreguista and wants foreign military forces to have authority in Alcântara. A que ponto chegamos?!

I think Bolsonaro is the worst leader this country has had since, well, since pretty much recorded history.

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US burns by far the most fossil fuel per capita. If any country needs to be sanctioned for causing climate change, it's the US.

Climate change doesn't work on a per-capita basis.

How else do it aggregate to the sum of all on earth? Climate change do not care about borders

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#54
Gonna give my 2 cents, bear in mind I'm in Brazil and am involved in projects related to the Amazon forest.

My problem with all this are some things:

* One problem I have is that during the last years Amazon savagery was going uncontrollable, no one cared, especially BBC, now that a president was elected that is not aligned with their point of view was elected, this became a front news issue.

* Assuming this is all true (and bear in mind, it isn't always) that fire was in Brazil's frontier, not just Brazil, the article forgot that part.

* One more point is: the supposed German and Norway money to "help maintain the forest", if you need to learn anything from investigative journalism, is to follow the money. Norway had a mining operation in the middle of Amazon[0] - the thing they are supposed to prevent! Funny enough, that mining rig polluted all the area [1] and they settled down not paying the locals, that are still protesting. I really wonder if that Amazon fund was really to support and protect our forest or to pay off NGOs to ignore what they were doing over there. Bonus: this all happened in the previous "good" government administration.

I really worry about the forest and was in Sao Paulo when that happened two days ago, but I really suspect the politics around it.

[0] - http://theconversation.com/the-world-protests-as-amazon-fore...

[1] - https://www.tnp.no/norway/panorama/toxic-waste-from-norwegia...

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the problem here is not agreeing on whether this is awful. It's already pretty clear that it is. However, other countries cannot intervene. Brazilian borders are Brazilian, any other country that wants to help needs to be authorised by Brazilian authorities. The real problem here is that Brazil's leaders are awful and there's nothing that can be done in regards to that. It's only possible to protest and…

Funny how no one proposed to remove California from US sovereignty when the fires were raging awhile back. Or the Gulf of Mexico coast with the Deep Horizon incident. --- Não vai encontrar razoabilidade aqui, amigo. Esta gente julga que manda no mundo inteiro.

There's only one person in the thread even suggesting anything close to "removing sovereignty", yet you're already seeing a horde of enemies.

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#56
Please stop.

It is not the fault of the current government. Burning happens every year in the Amazon, and everywhere across the world.

The leftist party is using international media to alarm against the current government.

There are also investigations being carried out on these burnings, as there are indications that several are criminals and were executed by NGOs in this region. Those are the same who have lost benefits (money) in recent weeks.

Yes, it is the responsibility of the current government to intervene, hold responsible and take steps to prevent this from occurring or diminishing its impact in the future. It is worth remembering that this government is only 8 months old.

People behave as if previous governments were constantly extinguishing fire and that in the last 16 days, "by the current government", the water has run out and started to set fire to everything.

The problem of Amazonian care comes from decades of neglect, and this government is only 8 months old. There should be no external intervention. Other countries (first world or not, there are no excuses) should reforest as much as they can for the global good and not just point the finger at this region (important, of course).

NGOs in Brazil are almost totally corrupt, they are cancer here in Brazil. As well as much of politics.

Many forget or do not know that former President Lula [1] assumed in interviews that his government lied about important statistical data, such as hunger and misery in Brazil to impact abroad and then present the true numbers as the savior of this country. Pure manipulation.

The current government is revisiting all research departments through a thorough process to check all numbers that were presented as true and many are questionable.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5bOtqmvJHE (in Portuguese only, sorry)

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#57
post #51
post #20

Brasil needs to be heavily sanctioned by the international community, I'm talking Cuba-level stuff if we want to even have a chance at stopping the rise above 2 degrees, we only have 12 years which means that it's already probably too late. More worrying is the rise of populism in the world supported by fake news, ignorance and social media that led to this. How did someone as ignorant as Bolsonaro ever managed to ge…

it would be more effectiveif the northern hemisphere started paying a rainforest tax to the southern as proposed by the likes of prince charles

Equador tried asking for that, but it was ignored: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ecuador-asks-worl...

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#58
post #20

Brasil needs to be heavily sanctioned by the international community, I'm talking Cuba-level stuff if we want to even have a chance at stopping the rise above 2 degrees, we only have 12 years which means that it's already probably too late. More worrying is the rise of populism in the world supported by fake news, ignorance and social media that led to this. How did someone as ignorant as Bolsonaro ever managed to ge…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US burns by far the most fossil fuel per capita. If any country needs to be sanctioned for causing climate change, it's the US.

Climate change doesn't work on a per-capita basis.

Humans do. No human is going to accept emitting less CO2 just because they live in a populous country, if other humans are allowed to emit more per person just because they live in a less populated country.

Re: Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest

#60
post #2

> 1 hour ago > 0 comments on HN I wonder what would happen if this was a paul graham shitpost. :) Also so sad to see this happening, we are all responsible, it's not Brazil's responsibility, it's World's responsibility to take care of nature.

What do you propose? UN action to invade Brazil? Germany and Norway have already frozen aid they pay to Brazil

Trade sanctions would be a good start. Just don't import any agricultural products from Brazil. Make important tariffs inversely proportional to rain forest area.
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