Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup • Hacker News Board

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#51

Post by dfg74fcgp » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 6:24 AM UTC

kemayo wrote: post #11

> By activating a dormant software lock on their newest iPhones, Apple is effectively announcing a drastic new policy: only Apple batteries can go in iPhones, and only they can install them. I really dislike the phrasing attached to this story. It's not a lock: a third party installed battery still works , the phone isn't refusing to start up until you go to an Apple Store and have an authentic Apple(tm) battery inst…

Considering the level of psychological analysis that goes into products like this and others, I would not be surprised to learn they have selected the phrase most likely to cause distress to the owner making them want to take the product to an authorised repair centre. It seems some US manufacturers are trying to make their products a service of sorts, when you look at what other companys are doing. John Deere springs to mind with farmers.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#52

Post by ChickeNES » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 6:30 AM UTC

bubblethink wrote: post #50

ChickeNES wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Whether the old part was genius blessed or not is of little concern as long as it is a genuine part. How do you know it's a genuine part? Maybe even the seller truly believes it is a genuine battery, but counterfeits getting into a supply chain is common unless very tightly controlled.

Battery and other checks have existed forever. Even my ancient thinkpad does it, and lenovo/ibm are kings of whitelists. They've been nickle and diming people for a few decades now. Long before the iphone existed. That's not what is being discussed. This goes a step further and requires an apple store employee to sell and insert the battery. That's how your freedoms erode. Slowly, and in the name of safety/security.

I have no use for conspiratorial ramblings. Again, how do you propose protecting consumers from faulty batteries? This goes beyond Apple to other devices, for example vaporizers, which have caused burns and even deaths from improper use of batteries not designed for end-user replacement.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#53

Post by temporaryvector » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 6:31 AM UTC

ChickeNES wrote: post #48

temporaryvector wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Would you want to know if the home you were buying was wired by a licensed electrician No, not really. I'd want it inspected, of course, but that's about it. Same with buying used cars. If the house wiring or my used car fucks ups, I'm safe in the knowledge that I can just hire someone to fix it for a reasonable price, and I can be reasonably confident that they'll do a decent job because the knowledge and the parts…

I think you miss my point. The average person just wants their phone fixed, not to be able to fix it themselves. And they want to have confidence it was done right. Also, a fun fact: an iPhone XR replacement battery is $80USD from iFixit (the only vendor I'd trust) vs $69 for out-of-warranty replacement from Apple themselves, labor included.

I specifically avoided mentioning anything about people doing repairs themselves because that's not the most important consequence of right-to-repair.

Also, good luck finding an Apple store or getting your battery replaced in reasonable time anywhere outside the major cities, and especially anywhere outside the US.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#54

Post by temporaryvector » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 6:37 AM UTC

dfg74fcgp wrote: post #51

kemayo wrote: post #11

> By activating a dormant software lock on their newest iPhones, Apple is effectively announcing a drastic new policy: only Apple batteries can go in iPhones, and only they can install them. I really dislike the phrasing attached to this story. It's not a lock: a third party installed battery still works , the phone isn't refusing to start up until you go to an Apple Store and have an authentic Apple(tm) battery inst…

Considering the level of psychological analysis that goes into products like this and others, I would not be surprised to learn they have selected the phrase most likely to cause distress to the owner making them want to take the product to an authorised repair centre. It seems some US manufacturers are trying to make their products a service of sorts, when you look at what other companys are doing. John Deere spring…

>Considering the level of psychological analysis that goes into products like this and others

Don't need to do any analysis or anything. The mere fact that the message doesn't go away is enough to push a lot of people towards getting an authorized repair. If this truly was for consumer protection against bad batteries, they could have implemented a "Check my battery" button which returns the same message instead of having an always-on message.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#55

Post by pentae » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 6:41 AM UTC

puranjay wrote: post #24

I'm done with Apple. How can a computer company knowingly ship a product with a keyboard that breaks within a few months for three whole generations? Mine lasted just 4 months and I was advised to invest in a silicone cover for it. Which is absurd for a $1500 laptop. And they made it sound like it was just a minor issue - "oh everything works great except the keyboard". As if a laptop without a keyboard isn't practic…

It's put a big stain on them in the last few years thats for sure. That being said, at least the keyboard replacement program is basically a free extended warranty on the keyboard if they didn't have that I think the situation would be far more aggravating. I'm more pissed that they dropped USB-A about 5-7 years too soon.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#56

Post by bubblethink » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 6:47 AM UTC

ChickeNES wrote: post #52

bubblethink wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Battery and other checks have existed forever. Even my ancient thinkpad does it, and lenovo/ibm are kings of whitelists. They've been nickle and diming people for a few decades now. Long before the iphone existed. That's not what is being discussed. This goes a step further and requires an apple store employee to sell and insert the battery. That's how your freedoms erode. Slowly, and in the name of safety/security.

I have no use for conspiratorial ramblings. Again, how do you propose protecting consumers from faulty batteries? This goes beyond Apple to other devices, for example vaporizers, which have caused burns and even deaths from improper use of batteries not designed for end-user replacement.

You can implement genuineness checks for equipment without requiring a stooge to install the equipment for you. The car industry does it, and cars are much more likely to kill you. Other electronics with batteries do it too. Nothing about a phone is unique. Again, this is mostly a problem of education. If it takes me 5 comments on HN to explain that you are capabale of replacing a battery, it's a lost cause.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#57

Post by ChickeNES » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 6:48 AM UTC

temporaryvector wrote: post #53

ChickeNES wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you miss my point. The average person just wants their phone fixed, not to be able to fix it themselves. And they want to have confidence it was done right. Also, a fun fact: an iPhone XR replacement battery is $80USD from iFixit (the only vendor I'd trust) vs $69 for out-of-warranty replacement from Apple themselves, labor included.

I specifically avoided mentioning anything about people doing repairs themselves because that's not the most important consequence of right-to-repair. Also, good luck finding an Apple store or getting your battery replaced in reasonable time anywhere outside the major cities, and especially anywhere outside the US.

> Also, good luck finding an Apple store or getting your battery replaced in reasonable time anywhere outside the major cities, and especially anywhere outside the US.

No need! That's why Apple has certified third-party affiliates, including Best Buy in the US [1]. Prices are identical to service from the Apple Store.

[1] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/06/apple-partners-with-b...

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#58

Post by Despegar » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 6:54 AM UTC

a9entroy wrote: post #38

abalone wrote: post #16

> Now, I’m not sure that Apple has thus far triggered that kill switch. But they can do so at any time. This is just scaremongering. Apple has not, in fact, triggered a "kill switch" or "locked" anyone out of using a 3rd party battery. All it does is display a message that it's not a genuine Apple part. Deep in the battery settings. That's it. Remember that old iPhones are frequently resold. You're going to want to k…

You are wrong. The message doesn't read anything like that. It says that the battery needs replacement and they explain it like this: > "When a battery gets closer to the end of its lifespan, the amount of charge and the ability to provide power reduces. As a result, a battery may need to be charged more and more frequently and your iPhone might experience unexpected shutdowns." This is dishonest. Because you put in…

You apparently didn't read the iFixit post because the message does say that the battery may not be genuine.

https://www.ifixit.com/News/apple-is-locking-batteries-to-ip...

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#59

Post by kuzehanka » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 6:58 AM UTC

kemayo wrote: post #11

> By activating a dormant software lock on their newest iPhones, Apple is effectively announcing a drastic new policy: only Apple batteries can go in iPhones, and only they can install them. I really dislike the phrasing attached to this story. It's not a lock: a third party installed battery still works , the phone isn't refusing to start up until you go to an Apple Store and have an authentic Apple(tm) battery inst…

No. That's exactly what Apple are doing. Out of all the ways they could harm the consumer in this situation, that message is by far the most effective. Stop defending them. Stop giving them benefit of doubt. Stop misconstruing their malice for incompetence. Apple has repeatedly demonstrated that they'll go to extreme lengths to harm consumers and prevent 3rd party repair.

That message destroys the consumer's trust in 3rd party repair shops. It says battery health issue. Are sure you put in a real Apple battery? Did you even change my battery at all?

Outright locking the battery out would cause backlash and possible legal action. This 'technically works but will nag you forever unless you pay Apple to run a program to clear the message that they refuse to share with 3rd parties' solution is genius. Evil genius.

Imagine the car equivalent of this situation. Imagine you take your BMW to a non-BMW-authorised repair shop and they swap your battery to a perfectly good one for 1/5th the price. But now you have a permanent warning light on your dashboard that there's something wrong with your battery. This situation is actually impossible. There are laws that require carmakers to release repair manuals to 3rd party repairers and honour warranty after 3rd party repairs. Tech companies are shitting on their users because equivalent laws don't exist for electronic goods.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#60

Post by ChickeNES » Mon, Aug 12, 2019, 7:03 AM UTC

bubblethink wrote: post #56

ChickeNES wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no use for conspiratorial ramblings. Again, how do you propose protecting consumers from faulty batteries? This goes beyond Apple to other devices, for example vaporizers, which have caused burns and even deaths from improper use of batteries not designed for end-user replacement.

You can implement genuineness checks for equipment without requiring a stooge to install the equipment for you. The car industry does it, and cars are much more likely to kill you. Other electronics with batteries do it too. Nothing about a phone is unique. Again, this is mostly a problem of education. If it takes me 5 comments on HN to explain that you are capabale of replacing a battery, it's a lost cause.

It's literally cheaper to pay Apple to replace an iPhone XR battery than it is to buy a trustworthy replacement from iFixit, and a modest (~$25 at worst, though I'm not including shipping cost from iFixit, and labor would eat most of that margin IMO) premium for phones dating back to the iPhone 6.