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Launch HN: Quirk (YC S19) – Open-Source Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

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Re: Launch HN: Quirk (YC S19) – Open-Source Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

#51

Post by asdfman123 »

flaque wrote: post #48
asdfman123 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the app store any data in their servers? I'm hardly obsessed with data privacy but I would never, ever, ever want my mental health data out there for some data scientist to play around with and manipulate. Facebook knowing all the dumb crap I do on their platform really pales in comparison to the data privacy issues of an app. If I get a whiff of anything negative, I'm not using it. I'm suspicious already.

No, it doesn't store you mental health thoughts on any servers. They're all stored only on your device. The caveats are below: We collect anonymous, aggregate (as in "user-213sdfewfefwa") events. This is stuff like: > "user-awefawewa21312aef" opened the app > "user-efaoiwejf21321few" started a free trial These are used for aggregate stats like "how many people use Quirk" or "do people read the articles?" This is reco…

I still don't like it. I've dealt with a lifetime of stigma, to the point where I don't even want to write an anonymous comment about it.

> Because we're a paid product, we have little incentive to read your thoughts or strip-mine your data

That may be who you are now, but what if later you want to take on investor money? Then, the incentive to mine data becomes this: even more money. As Batman once told me, "power is never innocent."

Re: Launch HN: Quirk (YC S19) – Open-Source Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

#53

Post by mattdeboard »

flaque wrote: post #4
danr4 wrote: post #2

I recommended Quirk to my girlfriend a few months ago. Still haven't tried it myself. You seem to know what you're doing so my only advice is to not take VC money or you'll probably be pushed into making this app a general health app that is a bit useful for everyone instead of very useful to a lot of people, for the sake of money.

Thank you for recommending it! I really hope it's helping. Re:pushed-to-be-general --> 1000%, this is definitely a concern. We're definitely new to this world, so we're talking a lot with more experienced founders who understand how to navigate it better than we do. We also do a lot to setup systems that align the incentives of the business with the incentives of the user; for example being open source is one strong…

What user data do you store? Do you sell user data? How do you protect user data?

I trust your founding story, and I truly believe you are acting in good faith, with positive intentions. I think your rationale for a subscription model is wise & insightful.

However, recent history has taught me to be cynical. I have to think there's a market for more and higher-resolution emotional profiles to open up new targeted advertising delivery channels. Especially information that can be used to feed algorithms for building higher resolution models of my inner life.

Re: Launch HN: Quirk (YC S19) – Open-Source Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

#55

Post by mattdeboard »

flaque wrote: post #48
asdfman123 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the app store any data in their servers? I'm hardly obsessed with data privacy but I would never, ever, ever want my mental health data out there for some data scientist to play around with and manipulate. Facebook knowing all the dumb crap I do on their platform really pales in comparison to the data privacy issues of an app. If I get a whiff of anything negative, I'm not using it. I'm suspicious already.

No, it doesn't store you mental health thoughts on any servers. They're all stored only on your device. The caveats are below: We collect anonymous, aggregate (as in "user-213sdfewfefwa") events. This is stuff like: > "user-awefawewa21312aef" opened the app > "user-efaoiwejf21321few" started a free trial These are used for aggregate stats like "how many people use Quirk" or "do people read the articles?" This is reco…

> Because we're a paid product, we have little incentive to read your thoughts or strip-mine your data. We're in the business of making you feel better; we're not reading your deepest darkest secrets to figure out how to sell you shoes or something. We don't want to know your thoughts. Unless someone explicitly tells us otherwise, we treat them like passwords.

I trust you when you say this, and I trust that you are being sincere. I do not trust the incentive structures of Silicon Valley to permit you to adhere to this principle.

Re: Launch HN: Quirk (YC S19) – Open-Source Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

#57

Post by aznumeric »

asdfman123 wrote: post #51
flaque wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it doesn't store you mental health thoughts on any servers. They're all stored only on your device. The caveats are below: We collect anonymous, aggregate (as in "user-213sdfewfefwa") events. This is stuff like: > "user-awefawewa21312aef" opened the app > "user-efaoiwejf21321few" started a free trial These are used for aggregate stats like "how many people use Quirk" or "do people read the articles?" This is reco…

I still don't like it. I've dealt with a lifetime of stigma, to the point where I don't even want to write an anonymous comment about it. > Because we're a paid product, we have little incentive to read your thoughts or strip-mine your data That may be who you are now, but what if later you want to take on investor money? Then, the incentive to mine data becomes this: even more money. As Batman once told me, "power i…

These kinds of apps should ideally be open source and with an option to completely turn off the telemetry. Also fully desktop and/or mobile native, without web backend of any kind.

Re: Launch HN: Quirk (YC S19) – Open-Source Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

#58

Post by flaque »

mattdeboard wrote: post #55
flaque wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it doesn't store you mental health thoughts on any servers. They're all stored only on your device. The caveats are below: We collect anonymous, aggregate (as in "user-213sdfewfefwa") events. This is stuff like: > "user-awefawewa21312aef" opened the app > "user-efaoiwejf21321few" started a free trial These are used for aggregate stats like "how many people use Quirk" or "do people read the articles?" This is reco…

> Because we're a paid product, we have little incentive to read your thoughts or strip-mine your data. We're in the business of making you feel better; we're not reading your deepest darkest secrets to figure out how to sell you shoes or something. We don't want to know your thoughts. Unless someone explicitly tells us otherwise, we treat them like passwords. I trust you when you say this, and I trust that you are b…

> I do not trust the incentive structures of Silicon Valley to permit you to adhere to this principle.

Neither do I! My point is more so that we try to take steps not just to say "hey we don't read your thoughts" but also to align the incentive systems so that 10 years down the line we're at least pointed in the right direction.

Re: Launch HN: Quirk (YC S19) – Open-Source Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

#60

Post by flaque »

mattdeboard wrote: post #53
flaque wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for recommending it! I really hope it's helping. Re:pushed-to-be-general --> 1000%, this is definitely a concern. We're definitely new to this world, so we're talking a lot with more experienced founders who understand how to navigate it better than we do. We also do a lot to setup systems that align the incentives of the business with the incentives of the user; for example being open source is one strong…

What user data do you store? Do you sell user data? How do you protect user data? I trust your founding story, and I truly believe you are acting in good faith, with positive intentions. I think your rationale for a subscription model is wise & insightful. However, recent history has taught me to be cynical. I have to think there's a market for more and higher-resolution emotional profiles to open up new targeted adv…

To answer the obvious question: we don't store your thoughts.

We store anonymous behavioral info like strings of "USER-a23o13jaf signed on to a free trial." Then our bug-checking system also stores some anonymous device info like what phone you're using, how big it is, the language you're on, that sort of thing.

We don't sell your data. That's pretty scummy.

We protect user data by collecting as little as possible and not storing it. We don't collect your email or your phone number or anything really. Signup is handled entirely by the stores.

> recent history has taught me to be cynical.

You should be cynical. I'm cynical. There's no real way for us to convince you to trust Quirk, since people at companies change and because people change.

That's why we're so focused on systems thinking rather than just telling you to trust us. We'd rather set the company up so that it's always headed in a direction that benefits customers. This isn't a perfect solution, but it's the best one I can think of.

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