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The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

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Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#51
I've been enjoying the "Against the Rules" podcast [1] hosted by Michael Lewis [2]. It's related to moderation so I'll post it here.

The show is series of stories/reports on the work of refereeing fairness in different parts of life. With views into how those referees are changing, and in some cases, outright disappearing.

Fascinating stuff from an author who really knows how to tell an engaging story about a potentially dry topic. (Moneyball, The Big Short, Liar's Poker, etc.)

[1] https://atrpodcast.com/

[2] https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/776.Michael_Lewis

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#52
post #12

Interesting that only 2 people can moderate million users

Millions of readers, the amount of active commenters is much lower. In addition, HN doesn't get much of the "classic" troll crowd (no matter if 4chan/8chan/outright real Nazis/gamergate) or Trump supporters - from the occasional politics thread aside, there's nothing much of interest for them here, and so the biggest blocks of trolls simply stay away.

Still... I wonder how many messages are reported per day. BTW, I don't get why you're being downvoted...

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#53
post #3

“In April, when a story about Katie Bouman, an M.I.T. researcher who helped develop a technology that captured the first photo of a black hole, rose to the front page, users combed through her code on GitHub in an effort to undermine the weight of her contributions.” This is an odd statement as it implies the purpose was to undermine. Reading code and critiquing isn’t meant to “undermine” but to identify truth and co…

I thought it was just the annoyance of having the lefty/media point of view pushed hard. Whenever someone that isn't a white male achieves something, there's this push to let the whole world know that a "minority" has accomplished something.

It just comes off as a "In your face! Racist white people." I'm fairly certain that most sane folk could care less about the gender or colour of the person making progress for mankind.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#54
post #2

> On any given day, its top links might include a Medium post about technical hiring Isn't it quite ironic to see the article suggesting that HN top link might include Medium post. I've usually read not-so-positive feedback about Medium posts. Isn't it the case?

Sturgeon's Law says 90% of anything is crap.

Since anyone can write for medium, and anyone with an HN account can post medium links here, there are huge amounts of medium content. So we see a lot of that 90%, as well as the 10% that's useful.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#55
Although being - sometimes wildly - at odds with many of the leanings, assumptions, and perceived biases underlying the generality of HN, and often not sharing editorial viewpoints as expressed by dang and sctb, I am consistently in awe and absolutely drooling fanboy adulation over the quality of the moderation and everything else which keep - miraculously - this site running, healthy, useful, and mostly spam-free. From over here in a very different set of values and mind: Thank you for all that.

As for the article: King Canute was a Danish and for a while English king. Never Swedish.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#56
post #23
post #2

> On any given day, its top links might include a Medium post about technical hiring Isn't it quite ironic to see the article suggesting that HN top link might include Medium post. I've usually read not-so-positive feedback about Medium posts. Isn't it the case?

Why not judge the post by the insightfulness of the content, rather than the domain from which it originates?

When you're looking at a page of 30 links, the signaling value of a domain is useful. Medium is a low-barrier place to publish, and has discovery built in, so it ends up attracting a lot of bad writing and promotional material. That, combined with the degraded reading experience, is why I am happy to judge a book by its cover in this case.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#57
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Strict moderation is the reason HN is the only reasonable discussion forum remaining on the internet. Don't you find it a bit suspicious that the forum you happen to like is "the only reasonable discussion forum remaining on the internet"?

I don't know what you mean by "suspicious." I'm part of a ton of other forums and communities, and over time almost all of them have devolved into complete and utter dogshit, just an endless stream of memes and screenshots of Twitter posts. The communities that remain successful either have total strict moderation or a "shitposts" section where all of the garbage ends up, but even then the quarantine zone ends up suc…

> I don't know what you mean by "suspicious."

I mean that, maybe you should distrust your own judgement that "HN is the only reasonable discussion forum remaining on the internet". Perhaps other places have environments that you don't like but other people feel that they are "the only reasonable discussion forum remaining on the internet".

> I'm part of a ton of other forums and communities, and over time almost all of them have devolved into complete and utter dogshit, just an endless stream of memes and screenshots of Twitter posts.

In my experience this has a lot more to do with algorithmic instead of chronological ordering. Facebook for example, where a lot of communities have gone to die, is a context-destroying engine. Only memes and shitposts can survive. What is the point of writing something thoughtful if you don't know if anyone will even see it?

Otherwise, online communities have a lifetime. Before HN there was Slashdot and Kuro5hin. They were nice at some point, then devolved into shit. Same thing will happen to HN and everything else, of course.

> The communities that remain successful either have total strict moderation or a "shitposts" section where all of the garbage ends up, but even then the quarantine zone ends up sucking up a lot of the forum energy. I think it's best to just not have it at all.

My favorite community uses a completely different strategy: there are no moderators but it is relatively obscure. Shit posters come and go, nobody reacts, all is fine. It has been going on for more than two decades. I will not disclose it because I do not want to ruin it, but I bet lots of things like this exist. They don't make money nor are they advertising arms of money-making operations, so nobody really cares. No newspaper will ever write an editorial about them -- this is why they are so great!

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#58
post #50
post #16

Shout out to dang! You're doing a great job! Thank you! Strict moderation is the reason HN is the only reasonable discussion forum remaining on the internet. I wish good moderation was a skill that more people learned - would you ever be interested in writing a guide or teaching a class on moderation?

I wouldn’t call it strict at all. He’s actually way more liberal about stuff than most over-bearing Reddit mods who think it’s their job to be editors of their own private newspaper rather than helping only when there’s no other option. This is why dang is so good at what he does as it draws a difficult balance.

I'm of the opinion that it is best to err on the side of strictness. Once you make a reasonable exception, you open a precedent, and some people are very good at digging up and pointing out precedent.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#59
post #40
post #16

Shout out to dang! You're doing a great job! Thank you! Strict moderation is the reason HN is the only reasonable discussion forum remaining on the internet. I wish good moderation was a skill that more people learned - would you ever be interested in writing a guide or teaching a class on moderation?

Is it just Strict moderation or Members with a common goal of making this place a good / fair place?

Definitely the members IMO; a moderator can snipe out the occasional troll, but if all members are being pricks there's nothing that can be done about that. What you need is to maintain an atmosphere, a culture, etc. You need the community to call one another out and keep one another accountable. And you need to nip any broken windows in the bud - Reddit's comment threads often spiral out of control and into a spammy mess of memes and references for example, simply because that's part of their culture. It's harmless enough on Reddit, but if that happened on HN the comments section would diminish greatly in value.
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