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Germans Grow Frustrated with Their Slow-Poke Internet

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51–60 of 343 posts

Re: Germans Grow Frustrated with Their Slow-Poke Internet

#51
post #3

It's really expensive for companies, too. The company I work for (small to medium sized) has a 34/34 Mbit/s fiber connection and it costs us 600€ per month. Included are 8 IPv4 addresses and an 8h response time (which has never been met and when we sued after a week of non-working internet, we lost in court). It's just ridiculous how expensive it is for businesses. We simply cannot afford a 100/100 MBit/s connection…

Curious the reason they gave for you losing in court???

I didn't work for the company back then but when I asked I was told that the fine print said they have longer if they acknowledged the issue. It turned out that our provider is just renting the fiber and has a 48 hour response contract with the actual owner of the fiber and our provider waited for the owner to confirm that it wasn't a hardware issue on the owner's side.

I would've probably never signed such a contract but I'm not the boss and maybe other providers are just as bad. But I certainly wouldn't have kept them as my provider after that.

Re: Germans Grow Frustrated with Their Slow-Poke Internet

#52
post #20

Just a bit more background from Germany: This article largely focusses on broadband connections. It doesn't even begin to adress the even bigger issue, which is that mobile internet is extremely bad compared to most other european countries. Also interesting that even the reporter fell for one of the lamest excuses: "Among them are the country’s large geographic area". Northern neighbor Sweden, which happens to be on…

[deleted]

Re: Germans Grow Frustrated with Their Slow-Poke Internet

#53
post #16

> But Deutsche Telekom, Ger­many’s dom­i­nant op­er­a­tor, took a less costly route in 2012, up­grad­ing its ex­ist­ing cop­per net­work through a tech­nol­ogy called vec­tor­ing. The article keeps mentioning this company repeatedly. Is Deutsche Telekom really the only game in town across the whole country? I thought Canada’s oligopoly was bad, but one company for a much bigger country sounds like the perfect recipe…

In most European countries, like in the U.S., there was a national telephone company. These are by and large privitized in the 1980s and 1990s, subject to various rules and regulations.

In the U.K., France, and Germany, the phone operator (BT, France Telecom, and Deutsche Telekom) were kept intact, but regulated. In the 1990s, they were required to lease out access to the phone network to competitors at regulated, wholesale rates. The idea is that you can't have effective competition for the last mile anyway, so you might as well put that into a monopoly, and require it to offer access to the last mile loops to competitors. (Obviously you then have to regulate the price of that wholesale service otherwise the monopoly can easily circumvent that by pricing wholesale access sky high.)

This approach is common, and theoretically sound. Something similar is used for the electric market in the U.S. (a local, rate-regulated monopoly owns the electric wire into your house, but it is required to buy electricity from competitive, wholesale markets.) But it's hard to do correctly--if you set the regulated rates too low, you kill off any incentive to invest. If you set them too high, consumers pay too much. Nobody really did it that great--of the largest five EU countries (the UK, Germany, France, Spain, and Italy), all have slow Internet relative to the U.S. Spain and France are turning that around recently by investing a bunch of government money in building fiber.

The U.S. situation was better due to an accident of history. Unlike most of Europe, almost everyone already had two wires into their house (cable and telephone). The U.S. implemented unbundling for DSL service for a relatively short but key period (early 2000s). That set a floor--cable had to be better than DSL to compete.

That never happened in the big EU countries. If you look at the OECD statistics, the thing that really holds them back is very high DSL usage: https://data.oecd.org/broadband/fixed-broadband-subscription.... Germany, France, and the U.K. have 30 DSL subscribers per 100 people, versus just 7 for the U.S.

Re: Germans Grow Frustrated with Their Slow-Poke Internet

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Home internet regularly costs $80 in the US, or roughly €72. €40 seems pretty reasonable by comparison.

Really? $80? I haven't seen $80 for internet. In a suburban area outside of Tacoma ~300mbps was about $50, and now just outside of Seattle I pay $75 for 1 gbps . The non-gigabit plans were south of $50. I Googled a bit and most websites said Americans generally pay somewhere between $50-$60.

I'm in NYC and after tax, my bill is roughly $80.

Re: Germans Grow Frustrated with Their Slow-Poke Internet

#55

I recently moved to Germany. I used to work as a software dev in India before this. I was horrified to learn that (urban) India has way better internet than Germany. When it comes to mobile data it's even more depressing - back in India I used to get 1.5GB _daily_ 4G mobile data for 200 rupees (around 2.5 euros) a _month_. Even after adjusting for purchasing power, 2.5 euros a month for virtually unlimited mobile dat…

Post Jio, India has one of the cheapest data rates in the world. Sometimes when you go elsewhere, one tends to accidentally turn on data and use it the same way as in India, and I have been bitten like this once. Luckily it was prepaid, so the damage was contained.

Re: Germans Grow Frustrated with Their Slow-Poke Internet

#56
post #29
post #2

It’s not just the speed. The costs are depressing as well. A 50Mbps connection (DSL, because cable is not even available in this area) at my current location costs €40/month. 40! It’s mind-blowing.

100 Mbit/s can be had for 20 euro for first 12 months in Berlin. 40 afterwards.

Usually it's best to "cancel" the contract immediately after signing, then when the cancellation comes in effect a year later it's easy to get the new customer rate again.

Re: Germans Grow Frustrated with Their Slow-Poke Internet

#57
post #20

Just a bit more background from Germany: This article largely focusses on broadband connections. It doesn't even begin to adress the even bigger issue, which is that mobile internet is extremely bad compared to most other european countries. Also interesting that even the reporter fell for one of the lamest excuses: "Among them are the country’s large geographic area". Northern neighbor Sweden, which happens to be on…

It seems to me France also has a comparable surface, although with more concentrated population centers.

France has 30 millions less people and is 50% bigger than germany (550000km2 vs 350000km2), so no, it is not comparable. Germany is way denser than France, with a lot big cities.

Re: Germans Grow Frustrated with Their Slow-Poke Internet

#58

Yep... I returned yesterday from Germany and it is awful . I thought the UK (rural) was bad, but Germany takes the cake. There are even (expensive) hotels which still ask money for using their wifi. When you go to have only a meal at a hotel, they tell you internet is just for guests (we had this 5 times in 2 weeks). And driving around with 3g/4g you notice massive patches without data reception. I live in the mounta…

Talking about Romania: in the modem Internet era I cabled (with my brother)the block of flats where we lived to share a connection. The wires were hanging between floors and were simply stitched to the walls internally. These types of cabling were then bought by ISP for cheap and they found themselves with cities cabled for pennies. Now they pulled fiber on public light poles (for free, of course) and interconnected…

Yeah bureaucracy and regulations is one of the reasons things suck here. Extending the network is ridiculously costly with all the planning, approvements required, the city having a say, some wavie complaining they get headaches, an old dude thinking the tower looks ugly, paying the construction company and finally having that thing certified after it's been built.

Re: Germans Grow Frustrated with Their Slow-Poke Internet

#59
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100 Mbit/s can be had for 20 euro for first 12 months in Berlin. 40 afterwards.

Usually it's best to "cancel" the contract immediately after signing, then when the cancellation comes in effect a year later it's easy to get the new customer rate again.

Or if you don't mind the hassle and have another provider available at your location, switch to it via some broker like check24 and get it even cheaper. I'm currently on 30/6 mbits for 11€ for two years, before that I had 120/10 mbits for 17€ over two years. They would turn into 25€ and 35€ after two years.

It is kind of ridiculous how they actually punish loyal customers by making them pay more after two years if you don't do anything. Sure, enough people are lazy enough to make this model feasible, but just imagine the butcher you've been getting your meat at for years suddenly goes like "hey you come here all the time so I'm gonna charge you 30% more"

Re: Germans Grow Frustrated with Their Slow-Poke Internet

#60
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me France also has a comparable surface, although with more concentrated population centers.

France has 30 millions less people and is 50% bigger than germany (550000km2 vs 350000km2), so no, it is not comparable. Germany is way denser than France, with a lot big cities.

Isn't Internet in France supposedly really cheap and very fast?
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