Burnout • Hacker News Board

Re: Burnout

#51

Post by Aaargh20318 » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 8:25 PM UTC

almost_usual wrote: post #17

codeisawesome wrote: post #10

Great advice if you’re already a millionaire.

Not sure what being a millionaire has to do with avoiding burn out. There are plenty of wealthy people who still burn out. If you’re burning yourself out solely for “getting rich” you should probably buy lotto tickets instead.

If you are rich you’re burning out by choice. Having to go through something like long workdays because you want to is a completely different experience than doing so because you have to.

I never understood why people keep working once they have accumulated enough to not have to work anymore.

Re: Burnout

#52

Post by davidjnelson » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 8:34 PM UTC

high_5 wrote: post #48

blinkingled wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because without a focus on raising a family and/or participation in organized religion, our careers/workplace have become the "things" that we now try to put all this meaning behind, and what was once separated from our "life" (e.g. work/life balance) has become our life, and the psychological burden of being forced to be 100% emotionally invested/devoted to our work has consequences. This resonates with me a 100%.…

We don't only need variation, we need rhythm. We live in an a-rhythmic world where in the evening the morning events feel like yesterday, where weeks whoosh by like days, rattled with the constant flurry of calls, messages, notifications and whatnot. There is no pace if one does not set it by himself.

Disabling most notifications is a great way to deal with this. Then you can check stuff when you want/need to.

Re: Burnout

#53

Post by alexashka » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 8:54 PM UTC

westoncb wrote: post #36

dawhizkid wrote: post #15

I think there's two types of work-induced burnout. "White collar" burnout is generally self-inflicted, and to me less about working oneself to exhaustion and more about working any amount of hours on something that you subconsciously believe is fundamentally misaligned with your core principles/true self. My hypothesis on why this seems to be happening at higher rates is because without a focus on raising a family an…

> more about working any amount of hours on something that you subconsciously believe is fundamentally misaligned with your core principles/true self. That rings true to me. My speculation as to why: at the most general level, our 'work' in life resembles a hierarchical optimization process--goals and sub-goals (and so on) forming a structure defined by nested utility functions. Our professional goals (and their day-…

Most people aren't interested in changing the world, just their lifestyle, to be what they've been sold as high status.

Facebook as one example is not filled with people who want to change the world, they can go work somewhere that's not cancer for 1/3 the pay any day of the week. Do they? No.

From personal experience - most burn-out is just a personality type. Some people only want to play at 9/10 intensity or not at all. Every professional athlete retires because they've 'burnt out'. Every professional athlete is willing to destroy their body to win. We love self destructive people. We love sacrifice. We love it when someone else does it, for our benefit.

When they're asking you to up your intensity from 4/10 to 6, we call them genius assholes and write blogs about avoiding them at all costs. They're asking you to sacrifice along with them, that is not acceptable. On Sunday, on TV, so that you can drink beer and cheer for your team, acceptable. When it involves you, 'burn out' :)

Re: Burnout

#54

Post by alexashka » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:03 PM UTC

cityzen wrote: post #45

westoncb wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> more about working any amount of hours on something that you subconsciously believe is fundamentally misaligned with your core principles/true self. That rings true to me. My speculation as to why: at the most general level, our 'work' in life resembles a hierarchical optimization process--goals and sub-goals (and so on) forming a structure defined by nested utility functions. Our professional goals (and their day-…

What would you tell your kids today? I have 2 boys, 7 and 10, and I don't want to lead them into the same trap. We are already dealing with the fear that the schools put into kids about tests. The pressure on kids to be in "performance" mode all the time is really disappointing to me.

Tell them they can work at Starbucks and lead a happy life. If you genuinely believe it, you won't have to tell your kids anything.

There is no pressure on kids, other than their idiot parents. School should be seen as trivial and boring, because grades don't matter. Grades don't matter because if you're not an idiot, you can flunk school and do well in life with minimal effort. Just try many things to see what you like and then do it for 10 years.

If it's athletics, you can go work a physically demanding job that pays well. If it's an intellectual pursuit, you'll be well suited for university and a high paying job. If it's creative, the admiration you get for your art will matter far more than living in a basement. If it's just being a nice, easy-going, kind human being, quality relationships will matter more than living in a basement.

Whichever way you go, you win, unless you have idiot parents who teach you to be unhappy and insecure, like them.

Re: Burnout

#55

Post by javiramos » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:20 PM UTC

voidhorse wrote: post #50

I hope someone will (or has?) conducted a historical and geographical analysis of the concept of “burnout”. I’m curious about where precisely it emerges (hypothesis, predominantly America) and when (hypothesis, the 21st century). It’s a peculiar concept in that it seems to capture the idea that we’ve reached a stage in human development in which we shouldn’t really have to work that much, but do so anyway . It a sort…

I recently read a book (Behemoth [0]) about the history of the 'factory' and I can tell you that burnout is omnipresent throughout the entire narrative. Particularly, the 18th century textile mills were a brutal and oppressive place to work. Burnout, financial ruin and pressure, and worker unhappiness were persistent elements of the book. To this day, we still have manufacturing settings that heavily rely in oppressive and abusive labor practices.

I think that what is "new" is burnout in the context of the office and knowledge work.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/mar/14/behemoth-joshu...

Re: Burnout

#56

Post by blinkingled » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:24 PM UTC

high_5 wrote: post #48

blinkingled wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because without a focus on raising a family and/or participation in organized religion, our careers/workplace have become the "things" that we now try to put all this meaning behind, and what was once separated from our "life" (e.g. work/life balance) has become our life, and the psychological burden of being forced to be 100% emotionally invested/devoted to our work has consequences. This resonates with me a 100%.…

We don't only need variation, we need rhythm. We live in an a-rhythmic world where in the evening the morning events feel like yesterday, where weeks whoosh by like days, rattled with the constant flurry of calls, messages, notifications and whatnot. There is no pace if one does not set it by himself.

> We live in an a-rhythmic world where in the evening the morning events feel like yesterday

I seriously think this is causing mental dysfunction - depression for instance. Of course I don't know of any way to prove this other than experience - we react to same situations in the same way and we feel stuck/frustrated when we experience repeat cycles of the same thing - that has got to have some negative impact.

I think we can do some things to make it work better but ultimately lot of things are determined by your workplace culture.

Re: Burnout

#57

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:33 PM UTC

metalgearsolid wrote: post #31

I think I'm burning out because my job is too easy. I like working. Satisfaction of completing a good job makes me happy. Is anyone else experiencing burnout as a result of numbingly boring tasks rather than from intense bursts of mentally challenging work? Am I conflating burnout with something else like depression? Writing up UI designed by a designer who doesn't understand my domain's interface guidelines, reexpla…

[deleted]

Re: Burnout

#58

Post by christilut » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:40 PM UTC

situational87 wrote: post #47

There is some incredibly obnoxious script on this page that won't let you resize the text. First time I've seen that. I often feel like the web couldn't possibly get any worse, and every day it finds a new way to surprise me and get worse.

There is some horrible javascript that calculates what the font size should be based on the height of the browser. A large screen gets a huge font and if you zoom out then the resize event triggers which keeps the font the same size.

Might be one of the worst things I've seen on the web so far

Re: Burnout

#59

Post by twbarber » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:56 PM UTC

geggam wrote: post #4

This was the hardest one for me and caused me a burnout a couple times, especially when working remote from home. Separate your work and personal life. This was a major change for me. I’ve always identified very closely with my work. I’m learning to separate my sense of self-worth and purpose from my professional self.

How did you manage to separate it? I've been remote 2 years now, and I'm just now starting to become aware of how big of a problem this is.

Re: Burnout

#60

Post by lanstin » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 10:10 PM UTC

cityzen wrote: post #45

westoncb wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> more about working any amount of hours on something that you subconsciously believe is fundamentally misaligned with your core principles/true self. That rings true to me. My speculation as to why: at the most general level, our 'work' in life resembles a hierarchical optimization process--goals and sub-goals (and so on) forming a structure defined by nested utility functions. Our professional goals (and their day-…

What would you tell your kids today? I have 2 boys, 7 and 10, and I don't want to lead them into the same trap. We are already dealing with the fear that the schools put into kids about tests. The pressure on kids to be in "performance" mode all the time is really disappointing to me.

Make sure they have a regular time when they are in charge of their time and tasks.