The Hot Girl Effect and Networking • Hacker News Board

Re: The Hot Girl Effect and Networking

#51

Post by nikster » Thu, Dec 30, 2010, 2:48 AM UTC

alanthonyc wrote: post #10

From the article: "Once a girl passes a certain degree of hotness, the amount of guys hitting on her drops dramatically." However, I know of a different version. If (as a guy) you are seen to date a hot girl, then the chances of you dating other hot girls goes up. They want to know what you've got. I'm guessing this applies to VC as well.

Absolutely true. Wait until you get married - suddenly chicks hit on you all the time. It's like... WTF?

Just two days ago, I sit in an outdoors bar, all alone, and order a beer. Now the other rule is that if you're all by yourself, nobody will approach you because you might be weird. Two hot girls sit down on the next table. And every time I look over, one of them gives me the biggest "please come over to talk to me right NOW" smile I have ever seen. As I am waiting for my wife. No regrets of course - I love my wife. But I am wondering: Where WERE you girls when I was single?

Re: The Hot Girl Effect and Networking

#52

Post by lsc » Thu, Dec 30, 2010, 2:53 AM UTC

maxklein wrote: post #6

The theory above is short term (get a date), when there is also the long term consideration (marry her, have kids). If you are an average joe, the chances of you having kids with a hot top model are, very frankly, very low. And we guys know that. In the same way, the chance of us having a nice chat with the CEO of Goldman is fair, but the chance of him maintaining contact with us and being a friend or mentor is prett…

Generally speaking, though, people are /horrible/ at evaluating their own value. Aside from extremes of ego (in either direction) which by itself could account for massive error bars, you have many other problems. Especially in the dating arena, and to a lesser extent in the professional context, even if you do know your attributes, it's often difficult to know what the other party values.

Re: The Hot Girl Effect and Networking

#53

Post by nikster » Thu, Dec 30, 2010, 3:00 AM UTC

mindcrime wrote: post #8

espadagroup wrote: post #5

I'm going to go ahead and say that "the hot girl effect" is not true, at least for women. The hotter you are the more you'll get hit on, guaranteed. Which leaves the theory behind this interaction up for grabs :)

There are a lot of variables in play, and I really have no idea if this holds up for any particular woman or not. But as a guy, who spends a lot of time talking to other guys about approaching / meeting / dating women, I can definitely say that - in my experience - there is absolutely an "intimidation" effect where men will avoid the hotter women because they assume that: A. "she's out of my league and wouldn't be in…

[From my single days] I'd generally want to get laid. So women that show absolutely no interest are great - no time wasted. Women that want to f... you right there in the bathroom are also great, but rare. Women that are nice and hot are great. But women that just string you along for whatever reason, they're your enemy - you waste all that time, and you get nothing for it. Had many of those experiences as it's sometimes very hard to tell which is which. US women in my not-statistically-significant experience were the worst. Europeans, South Americans, Asians, all more real and less likely to string guys along.

So in hindsight I think the most important skill is to cut losses early. Or as one womanizing friend told me - the skill is not to convince a girl who doesn't want to to sleep with you - that's not gonna happen; the skill is to spot those that are looking for sex tonight.

Re: The Hot Girl Effect and Networking

#54

Post by kirinkalia » Thu, Dec 30, 2010, 3:05 AM UTC

dandelany wrote: post #17

maxklein wrote: post #6

The theory above is short term (get a date), when there is also the long term consideration (marry her, have kids). If you are an average joe, the chances of you having kids with a hot top model are, very frankly, very low. And we guys know that. In the same way, the chance of us having a nice chat with the CEO of Goldman is fair, but the chance of him maintaining contact with us and being a friend or mentor is prett…

> people evaluate their actual value and see that it probably is not enough to make it worth their while approaching this person. Cost: Awkwardness, potential for embarrassing rejection. Benefit: Possible relationship, either short-term or long-term, with the subject of your admiration. So in my mind, if you can get over the fear of rejection, there's no reason not to at least try. Coffee with a CEO is better than no…

Great point about value.

A related point: if you know someone big/important is going to be at the event you're attending and you want to meet this person for whatever reason, it's well worth researching him/her beforehand so you can ask an intelligent question that shows you've done some homework and are not just out for yourself.

Be interesting, be memorable, do not be desperate (never attractive). And don't wear out your welcome, especially if you know other people are hovering (so they can make their own move on cool person) or if cool person clearly wants to duck out/away.

This chance to prepare, btw, is a key difference between meeting a big shot and hitting on a hot woman you happen to see at a bar.

Re: The Hot Girl Effect and Networking

#55

Post by nikster » Thu, Dec 30, 2010, 3:17 AM UTC

MrFlibble wrote: post #44

I once worked with a Teamster who didn't give a damn who you were (or how important for that matter). He just spoke his mind. Working on films, he would regularly have lunch with producers, actors, studio heads, you name it. He'd plop down at a table wherever & just eat his lunch & chat with whoever was there. Result? He could walk up to the "untouchables" on most shows & ask about their kids, chat about a vacation,…

Great post. I've been wanting to say something like that, but got distracted.

There is a truth, and two fallacies in the article. The truth is that the hot girl effect exists. Fallacies: #1 - It is automatically desirable to talk to the hot girl and the CEO, more so than to other people. It may be, it may not be, who knows. This is an implicit assumption in the article. #2 - That you therefore have to make an effort to talk to these people.

All three really are about the Ego and its trying to justify its existence by making itself important. Talking to hot girl / CEO - Ego gratification. Getting shot down - blow to the Ego. Fear of getting shot down - fear of the Ego losing its importance. If you looked at your own Ego as an entity all of its own, it is literally the fear of death.

Now with the hot girl situation you have two possible outcomes: Talk to hot girl; or avoid it. Both means you lose and both mean the ego wins. In talking to her, you "made" it and can feel proud; in avoiding, you've avoided being shot down and also "made" it. It's a lose-lose situation.

The best reaction that I know is to observe the ego forces within yourself - independent of your action.

Any time you feel superior, or inferior, to any other person, it's just the Ego talking. You can't stop this but you can observe it, realize it is so, and thereby overcome it. Personally when I have these moments I then just relax within myself and do what I like. I am happier and I am also meeting more interesting people.

"Stop thinking of people as who they are or what they represent" - exactly.

Re: The Hot Girl Effect and Networking

#56

Post by Shakattack » Thu, Dec 30, 2010, 3:17 AM UTC

maxklein wrote: post #6

The theory above is short term (get a date), when there is also the long term consideration (marry her, have kids). If you are an average joe, the chances of you having kids with a hot top model are, very frankly, very low. And we guys know that. In the same way, the chance of us having a nice chat with the CEO of Goldman is fair, but the chance of him maintaining contact with us and being a friend or mentor is prett…

The long-term vs short-term argument makes sense, I agree on that. If you have nothing to offer in the long-term, then it's probably not going to last. If you just want to ask the hot girl out of your league on a date to say that you did, then yeah, it's probably not going to go very far.

I think the people who actually succeed in going out of their league, or the ones who do have that long term relationship with the CEO, are the ones who have the confidence that they do have some value to offer. And by definition, these people are more likely to take the risk - because there's something legitimate backing it up. Not saying that every confident person who approaches the GS CFO will develop a long term relationship. But the ones who actually attempt are probably going to be the same people who have the confidence in themselves to build a long term relationship - and believe they can offer some real value.

Re: The Hot Girl Effect and Networking

#57

Post by ojbyrne » Thu, Dec 30, 2010, 3:35 AM UTC

It seems like it would be a confounding factor if said hot girl had a reputation as evil incarnate, as does Goldman-Sachs.

Re: The Hot Girl Effect and Networking

#58

Post by Vyk » Thu, Dec 30, 2010, 3:42 AM UTC

cousin_it wrote: post #46

yason wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many rejections a man would have to face to develop a "cockiness shield", to continue pursuing and hitting on women no matter how rejected he becomes. After all, it's a small effort for a potentially good returns. With practice he could certainly toughen up with regard to that but I think that by doing so he would inevitably have shut out part of his heart. Getting rejected by a woman is hard for a man.…

I would also add that after you develop your "cockiness shield" - though a sword would be a better analogy - it needs to be maintained, kept sharp. For some reason this particular skill fades very quickly (in months) if you stop exercising it, so it's not like swimming or riding a bike. There's another bit of bitter irony about this situation. After you become "hard" enough to attract a girl who was previously out of…

On the other hand, going to an extreme to appear attractive can backfire. You could be stuck with your act for as long as you want to stay with that girl. Do you really want to be with a girl, no matter how attractive, who won't like the man you want to be?

Re: The Hot Girl Effect and Networking

#59

Post by DevX101 » Thu, Dec 30, 2010, 3:55 AM UTC

nikster wrote: post #51

alanthonyc wrote: post #10

From the article: "Once a girl passes a certain degree of hotness, the amount of guys hitting on her drops dramatically." However, I know of a different version. If (as a guy) you are seen to date a hot girl, then the chances of you dating other hot girls goes up. They want to know what you've got. I'm guessing this applies to VC as well.

Absolutely true. Wait until you get married - suddenly chicks hit on you all the time. It's like... WTF? Just two days ago, I sit in an outdoors bar, all alone, and order a beer. Now the other rule is that if you're all by yourself, nobody will approach you because you might be weird. Two hot girls sit down on the next table. And every time I look over, one of them gives me the biggest "please come over to talk to me…

I hear guys talk about the marriage effect all the time but I suspect the increased attention they get from women isn't what you think it is.

As a married man, you're now domesticated. Imagine going to the park and seeing a golden retriever. You might pat this dog on the head, or play with him, because you know he's been trained well and sociable. But if you go camping and see a wolf, you'd do well to steer clear.

In a lot of cases, the woman flirts with a married guy b/c exactly BECAUSE she knew you wouldn't react. Same theory for why some women are great friends with gay guys.

Re: The Hot Girl Effect and Networking

#60

Post by fleitz » Thu, Dec 30, 2010, 3:59 AM UTC

maxklein wrote: post #6

The theory above is short term (get a date), when there is also the long term consideration (marry her, have kids). If you are an average joe, the chances of you having kids with a hot top model are, very frankly, very low. And we guys know that. In the same way, the chance of us having a nice chat with the CEO of Goldman is fair, but the chance of him maintaining contact with us and being a friend or mentor is prett…

Excellent advice, keep doubting yourself so that people like myself with confidence have an easier time succeeding because people like yourself don't even try, let alone fail, let alone succeed.

I'd take a date with a model or a coffee with a CEO any day of the week. I don't care if the long term outlook is zero, it's worth it just for the experience.