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Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists

hongkongfp.com

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Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists

#51

Post by benj111 »

underthebus wrote: post #43
benj111 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The population of Hong Kong is apparently 7+ million, and 2 million went on one of the marches. Doesn't seem 'fringe' to me. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-48656471

Trying to claim that these 2 million people campaign for HK independence is not honest.

Well until they are allowed a free and fair vote on that, saying its 'fringe at best' isnt honest either. I would contend that in the absence of such a vote, these numbers are enough to show you're wrong.

Also the news we are discussing demonstrates why the people of Hong Kong need protecting. So questioning that isnt honest either.

Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists

#52

Post by [deleted] »

hrktb wrote: post #30
briandear wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is exactly the reason the 2nd Amendment exists in the US constitution. It certainly wasn’t to protect target shooting and hunting, but to protect against precisely the sort of oppression happening in Hong Kong. Governments should fear the people, not the other way around. The 2nd Amendment is a check on tyranny. Those that are downvoting the parent, what’s the solution? In China, you can’t protest your way to fr…

Does the US government fear its own people ? From the outside, it seems that police equipment escalated to get army grade vehicles and weapons, and the army has been to enough wars involving fighting civilians that they could crush most opposition in a matter of days. Then what's happening in HK is masked "civilians" committing crimes, so the manifestant reacting to them with violence would also fall on the illegal s…

[deleted]

Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists

#53

Post by sho »

benj111 wrote: post #40
underthebus wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if I wish they could just gain independence, it seems unlikely, and it's not like any foreign power would go to war to protect HK. I never understood this. Why would HK gain 'independence'? Why would a foreign power 'protect' HK? (protect from what?) HK has been used to build a narrative that is rather strange... Frankly people in HK calling for independence are a bit like, say, the Texas Nationalist Movement…

The population of Hong Kong is apparently 7+ million, and 2 million went on one of the marches. Doesn't seem 'fringe' to me. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-48656471

What do you mean "apparently", like it's some kind of questionable assertion? It's 7+ million, period.

It's "fringe" because it's part of China, and even all 7+ million people in HK comprise less than 1% of China. I know many Chinese people, and they do not give a shit about HK's ideas about its own independence. They consider it China, full stop. The example about Seattle "declaring independence" the GP gave is actually quite apt. There is only one way this will play out.

I happen to vehemently disagree with what the PRC is doing, for what it's worth. But reality is reality and this script is going to unfold exactly as everyone thinks it will. In 10 years time I doubt there'll even be a border. Who's going to stop them? Boris Johnson?

Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists

#54

Post by RankingMember »

MadSudaca wrote: post #28
sgjohnson wrote: post #7

Seems like they could use the 2nd amendment there.

The progressives in HN downvote you, but the truth is that being able to use violence to protect your individual freedoms is instrumental to democracy. Few places can boast the level of stability that EEUU has had in the last 150 years. Many were taken over by tyrants and armed mobs, than eventually chose their tyrant. It's no coincidence that in Venezuela the regime disarmed the people with a law that according to t…

Do we really think that armed citizens would have a chance against the current US military? Weaponry has come pretty far since the days the 2nd amendment was created.

Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists

#55

Post by skosch »

underthebus wrote: post #43
benj111 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The population of Hong Kong is apparently 7+ million, and 2 million went on one of the marches. Doesn't seem 'fringe' to me. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-48656471

Trying to claim that these 2 million people campaign for HK independence is not honest.

Well of course – almost nobody is really campaigning for independence. HK is very much dependent on the mainland, and that's understood. The demands are much more narrow: for the extradition bill to be scrapped, for Carrie Lam to step down, for elections to be free and fair, etc.

Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists

#56

Post by leroy_masochist »

keanzu wrote: post #42

Excellent analysis here on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20492145 The Chinese and HK governments have realized they've lost the culture wars and public opinion so they've resorted to the tried and tested handbook of authoritarian governments, to create a cycle of violence to create justification for cracking down. This is a provocation. Protesters will now counter arm themselves with similar bats and stick…

One would hope that the protesters will continue to use the ingenuity they've shown over the last month (intensely coordinated logistics, hand signs, etc) and refuse to take the bait while finding a clever, asymmetrical response to the intimidation tactics.

Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists

#57

Post by meddlepal »

orf wrote: post #35
MadSudaca wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The progressives in HN downvote you, but the truth is that being able to use violence to protect your individual freedoms is instrumental to democracy. Few places can boast the level of stability that EEUU has had in the last 150 years. Many were taken over by tyrants and armed mobs, than eventually chose their tyrant. It's no coincidence that in Venezuela the regime disarmed the people with a law that according to t…

What about the many, many other functioning democracies with incredibly strict gun control?

It is all well and good until they stop functioning.

Guns empower people to not sit down and just take it when governments consistentenly abuse their power over a long enough period of time.

Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists

#58

Post by throwaway8879 »

RankingMember wrote: post #54
MadSudaca wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The progressives in HN downvote you, but the truth is that being able to use violence to protect your individual freedoms is instrumental to democracy. Few places can boast the level of stability that EEUU has had in the last 150 years. Many were taken over by tyrants and armed mobs, than eventually chose their tyrant. It's no coincidence that in Venezuela the regime disarmed the people with a law that according to t…

Do we really think that armed citizens would have a chance against the current US military? Weaponry has come pretty far since the days the 2nd amendment was created.

Maybe not, but the freedom to have that chance, no matter how small, is worth having. To me personally anyway.

Re: Chaos in Hong Kong as hundreds of masked men assault protesters, journalists

#60

Post by sho »

spiderdev wrote: post #16

A co-worker of mine just returned from visiting mainland China. She said everyone she spoke to, did not know about the protests in Hong Kong. They had no idea that something was happening there.

Claiming not to know was a way to avoid talking about it. Anyone in China who wants to know, knows. Of course the people in Shenzhen, less than 30km away, are aware of what's happening in HK. They just have no desire whatsoever to get into a political discussion with foreigners.

Don't underestimate the "them and us" mentality in China. It's very pervasive. Your co-worker was assuredly on the "them" side of the equation.

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