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Zed Shaw: Why I Don't Use Tor

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Re: Zed Shaw: Why I Don't Use Tor

#51
It doesn't matter that Tor was originally a US Navy project. Tor is open source. DARPA created the internet. Do you think the internet is a conspiracy by the US government to wiretap American citizens too?

Tor is used in China to access censored data. Tor is used to send encrypted data anonymously from oppressive countries. Both of these things align perfectly with the honest motives of Wikileaks.

Step outside your world Zed. Some people have a real need for projects like Tor.

Re: Zed Shaw: Why I Don't Use Tor

#53
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Re: Zed Shaw: Why I Don't Use Tor

#54
Regardless of his reasons, I think the result of not trusting tor is warranted, at least for most of the traditional reasons one might seek out tor.

The EFF themselves present many of the problems: http://www.torproject.org/download/download.html.en#warning

On top of that, the EFF has demonstrated that they are worried (reasonably) about the trust given to the global CA structure: http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/03/researchers-reveal-like...

In terms of protecting your anonymity, even when correctly managing cookies you may be uniquely identifiable by browser fingerprinting: https://panopticlick.eff.org/

At least the last time I looked, the network appeared quite thin, with much of your traffic by default traveling through a small collection (perhaps as low as one) of exit nodes.

TOR also represents a juicy target for eavesdropping by its nature as a concentrator for people trying to avoid it. If you were a burglar, it would make sense to stay the hell away from a place the cops had identified as a hotbed of burglary since they'll probably be concentrating their efforts there.

And, of course, there is the issue that it's been used in the past to publicly out users traffic: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/10/misuse_of_tor_led_to...

Most of these things apply to other possible solutions, but at least there you may get the advantage of most users of those services "having nothing to hide" making them not as juicy a target.

If I was super, super concerned about my privacy and anonymity when sending a specific few documents or such, I'd most likely take a page out of the black hat handbook and compromise a few lightly administered servers and use a not commonly used covert channel.

Re: Zed Shaw: Why I Don't Use Tor

#55
post #29

(I rather suspect that Mr Shaw is trolling, but anyway.) It's certainly true that humans have all manner of interesting behaviors owing to the fact that we're smart apes with huge numbers of survival heuristics. I would pause before taking a sandwich from Hitler, because I'm human, but it's not pertinent to the question of whether the sandwich is any good. (Except in as far as you think it more or less likely that th…

The problem with your argument is that some those same people have contributed articles to Wired driving certain unproven assumptions in the Manning case..

Its extremely troubling to say the least from a trust aspect..

Re: Zed Shaw: Why I Don't Use Tor

#56
post #28
post #24

Ad Hominems are a-ok now are they? Well here's Zed's thought process: a) Read Greenwald Salon article accusing Wired of having shady connections. b) Roll that basic premise into a set of wild accusations and things we already know about Tor. c) Sit back and enjoy the whole chaos of the troll. When someone attacks bring out the usual sockpuppets and sycophants to say "but Zed does all this great coding", "Zed is not l…

There's more to Ad Hominem arguments than unjustified personal insults.

Not much. When someone does something, and that same person has a goal that you disapprove of, you have to think about two things: the influence of that deed on that naughty goal, and and the influence of that deed on your goals.

Note that those two things can be conflated in one: if you disapprove some goal, then a part of your goal is to make that not happen. So in the end, the only thing that matters is the influence of the deed on your goals, period.

Now the deed cannot be evaluated alone. You need to know how it interacts with the world. And the first place to look at is the other deeds of the same person. (There lies the validity of Ad Hominem arguments.) However it's not the only place to look at.

For instance, if a Paper-Clip-Maniac wants to solve the Friendly AI problem, you probably don't want that problem solved: it could fill the universe with paper clips, wiping out all sentient life in the process. Now, say you're a transhumanist, and you want to cure Death. Solving the FAI problem suddenly look much better. It may even be worth the risk induced by that Paper-Clip-Maniac.

Re: Zed Shaw: Why I Don't Use Tor

#57
It's reasonable to assume that if Hitler wanted you to die, he wouldn't poison you with a sandwitch and risk being called a woman behind his back.

Anyway, motivations do not matter one bit when it comes to evaluating whom to trust with your data, if it's not safe by design then it's not safe period.

Re: Zed Shaw: Why I Don't Use Tor

#58
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't suppose MILINT has gotten any less competent in the last 60-odd years, but not disclosing that Tor is compromised would seriously hamper using it as a source for law enforcement, hence my thinking it would be more likely to be NSA. If so, I doubt we'd ever know, short of somebody leaking it.

If there was an organized effort to bust people using Tor then a pattern would emerge. In so much if they were high-profile targets (political dissidents, whistleblowers, spies, etc.). If they were cp collectors I don't think anyone would care enough to do an investigation.

This assumes that political dissidents, whistleblowers and spies are using tor in any significant numbers. It seems quite unlikely to me that this is true. I think you'd find that the vast majority of tor traffic is comprised of people trying to mask their location for criminal reasons, people looking to bypass local firewall restrictions and people using it as a free VPN.

Re: Zed Shaw: Why I Don't Use Tor

#59
post #55
post #29

(I rather suspect that Mr Shaw is trolling, but anyway.) It's certainly true that humans have all manner of interesting behaviors owing to the fact that we're smart apes with huge numbers of survival heuristics. I would pause before taking a sandwich from Hitler, because I'm human, but it's not pertinent to the question of whether the sandwich is any good. (Except in as far as you think it more or less likely that th…

The problem with your argument is that some those same people have contributed articles to Wired driving certain unproven assumptions in the Manning case.. Its extremely troubling to say the least from a trust aspect..

What are you talking about?
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