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Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

nytimes.com

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Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#51

Post by rayiner »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #46
bunnyrooroo wrote: post #31

Hello, I actually live in Alaska. I'm quite concerned about how the NY Times portrayed this. While I don't agree with all of the cuts to the University or the budget as a whole, the way this is being portrayed is interesting. If veto holds, and the cuts to the University take effect, Alaska will still spend 3 times as much per student than the average state. Yes, you heard that correct, Alaska will still contribute 3…

Another interpretation of your exact data is that this great amount of funding paid off, it educated you and attracted talented people to University of Alaska.

What is that an interpretation of the data?

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#52

Post by vpribish »

uptown wrote: post #38
pbreit wrote: post #27

Unpopular opinion: there's probably a lot of fat to be cut and this is possibly the only way to do it. Prediction: The most customer-unfriendly trimming will come first.

"Unpopular opinion: there's probably a lot of fat to be cut and this is possibly the only way to do it." What makes that an opinion? Seems like conjecture more than anything.

it's an idiom

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#53

Post by joshe »

Worth pointing out that the money from the cuts goes to the Alaska Permanent Fund dividends at about $3,000 per year (instead of $1,600). Each permanent resident gets that every year. It's about a third of the universal basic income proposals ($10,000).

Unusual to have such a stark trade off between a progressive program and the ballooning cost of education.

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#54

Post by peteradio »

mdorazio wrote: post #40
peteradio wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the disparity was expected and doubt the founders would conclude that sparsely populated states with very little economy should lead an entire branch. This is certainly not working.

Had to look up the stats on this. Around the time the constitution was written, about 5% of the US population lived in cities. It's over 80% today. I think the intent of having the Senate represent the states equally regardless of population was a good one, but the massive shift in demographics over the last 200 years probably merits a different approach. I don't think going strictly by population density is the best…

What was the economy difference between founding states? I don't care about rural urban divide. I care about states that can effectively be purchased by a rich individual having same say as states with country sized economies. At the time of founding individual states were bringing something to the table.

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#55

Post by bunnyrooroo »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #46
bunnyrooroo wrote: post #31

Hello, I actually live in Alaska. I'm quite concerned about how the NY Times portrayed this. While I don't agree with all of the cuts to the University or the budget as a whole, the way this is being portrayed is interesting. If veto holds, and the cuts to the University take effect, Alaska will still spend 3 times as much per student than the average state. Yes, you heard that correct, Alaska will still contribute 3…

Another interpretation of your exact data is that this great amount of funding paid off, it educated you and attracted talented people to University of Alaska.

UA is a decent University System, but not more than that.

In fact, a few months ago, the University of Alaska Anchorage lost accreditation for their teacher program. Yes, you read that correctly. The largest University in Alaska lost their accreditation for a program that is one of the most needed in the state.

Getting people to teach in Alaska is a major issue for obvious reasons, and the largest university in the state did such a poor job that they lost their ability to graduate licensed teachers.

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#56

Post by logfromblammo »

peteradio wrote: post #19
agarden wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You talk as if this were an unforeseen consequence of the way our legislature is set up. It is not. Giving the people who live in sparsely populated areas an equal voice with those who live in densely populated areas is the whole point of the Senate. It was designed to work this way and it is doing exactly what it was meant to do.

I don't think the disparity was expected and doubt the founders would conclude that sparsely populated states with very little economy should lead an entire branch. This is certainly not working.

How about representation proportional to economic activity instead of the quantity of state-ness being one or zero? With guaranteed representation of at least one seat, so the representation turns out to be slightly skewed against the powerhouses. Also note that Puerto Rico and Washington DC earn their seat by virtue of having enough economic activity, rather than by default.

"Seats" is senate seats per state; "rep" is proportion of total representation; "econ" is proportion of total economic activity.

I picked 150 for the total number of seats to make the rep vs. econ gap narrower, but not so much as to make the poorest 25 completely irrelevant.

  state         seats    rep   econ
  ---------------------------------
  California       20  13.3%  14.5%
  Texas            12   8.0%   8.7%
  New York         11   7.3%   8.2%
  Florida           7   4.7%   5.1%
  Illinois          6   4.0%   4.2%

  PA OH          }- 5   6.7%   7.1%

  NJ GA WA MA NC }- 4  18.7%  19.5%
  VA MI          }

  MD CO MN TN IN }- 3  10.0%   9.2%

  AZ WI MI CT LA }- 2  10.7%  10.7%
  OR SC AL       }

  KY OK IA UT KS }
  NV DC AK NE MS }
  PR NM HI NH WV }- 1  16.7%  12.5%
  ID DE ME RI ND }
  AK SD MO WY VT }

  island terr.   }- 0   0.0%   0.1%
  ---------------------------------
  Total           150

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#57

Post by dragonwriter »

aaron-santos wrote: post #23
agarden wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You talk as if this were an unforeseen consequence of the way our legislature is set up. It is not. Giving the people who live in sparsely populated areas an equal voice with those who live in densely populated areas is the whole point of the Senate. It was designed to work this way and it is doing exactly what it was meant to do.

At what point does it stop making sense? We exist on a continuum somewhere between states having equal population on one side and 1 person per state and 1 state with everyone else on the other. It feels like we're moving toward the latter. Especially since the way the senate rules are structured it only takes 20.5 low population states to block everything.

> At what point does it stop making sense?

The same time the 3/5 compromise and the other parts of the original design of the Constitution designed to preserve unity by assuring slave states that the greater voting population of the free states wouldn't lead to abolition stopped making sense, about 150 years ago.

But the power structure it set up is self perpetuating, so it doesn't matter that it stopped making sense; the people that benefit from it will always protect it and find a way to rationalize it.

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#58

Post by peteradio »

logfromblammo wrote: post #56
peteradio wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the disparity was expected and doubt the founders would conclude that sparsely populated states with very little economy should lead an entire branch. This is certainly not working.

How about representation proportional to economic activity instead of the quantity of state-ness being one or zero? With guaranteed representation of at least one seat, so the representation turns out to be slightly skewed against the powerhouses. Also note that Puerto Rico and Washington DC earn their seat by virtue of having enough economic activity, rather than by default. "Seats" is senate seats per state; "rep"…

What is column 1 and 2 with the numbers?

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#59

Post by mdorazio »

peteradio wrote: post #54
mdorazio wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had to look up the stats on this. Around the time the constitution was written, about 5% of the US population lived in cities. It's over 80% today. I think the intent of having the Senate represent the states equally regardless of population was a good one, but the massive shift in demographics over the last 200 years probably merits a different approach. I don't think going strictly by population density is the best…

What was the economy difference between founding states? I don't care about rural urban divide. I care about states that can effectively be purchased by a rich individual having same say as states with country sized economies. At the time of founding individual states were bringing something to the table.

We could look at state-level GDP as one measure, but I don't think it's as clear-cut as you think - see [1]. There's a significant amount of money in farming, livestock, and manufacturing, which tend to cluster in "cheap" states. I think you make a good point about concentration of wealth at the state level, though. There's probably a case to be made that rural states are more susceptible to control by a few individuals/corporations that make up large segments of the state's economic output. It's worth noting that economic inequality is usually higher in states with bigger economies, though [2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_Gini_co...

Re: Blindsided by a Devastating Veto, Alaska University System Pleads for Lifeline

#60

Post by seanmcdirmid »

bunnyrooroo wrote: post #39
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically enough, rural areas in Alaska vote blue and its the urban areas that vote red. So in this case it’s the urban area majority imposing their will on the less dense areas.

You realize that 90% of the population essentially lives in three towns in Alaska right? Ha! Imposing their will?

Yes, and they are white (like my Ketchikan born/raised mom), while the Aleuts who we took the land and the resources from in the first place live in small villages and towns. At any rate, it is just ironic how rural over representation is a right to be granted only when it’s red.
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