Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 61 posts

Re: Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

#51

Post by dsr_ »

yankeehue wrote: post #48
dsr_ wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, sometimes people are trying to state facts about the world. Those aren't opinions. Sometimes they're wrong.

Regardless what they think they are doing, they are still stating their own opinion. If we can try to interpret things in this way, even "I am stating a fact" becomes "I believe I am stating a fact."

You have erased the usefulness of the distinction between facts -- which are statements about the world that we believe to be true -- and opinions.

The burden of proof is different.

Re: Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

#52

Post by yankeehue »

dsr_ wrote: post #51
yankeehue wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless what they think they are doing, they are still stating their own opinion. If we can try to interpret things in this way, even "I am stating a fact" becomes "I believe I am stating a fact."

You have erased the usefulness of the distinction between facts -- which are statements about the world that we believe to be true -- and opinions. The burden of proof is different.

Setting the term "facts" aside for a moment, I don't perceive a difference between "statements about the world that we believe to be true" and "opinions."

Re: Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

#53

Post by dsr_ »

yankeehue wrote: post #52
dsr_ wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have erased the usefulness of the distinction between facts -- which are statements about the world that we believe to be true -- and opinions. The burden of proof is different.

Setting the term "facts" aside for a moment, I don't perceive a difference between "statements about the world that we believe to be true" and "opinions."

When people make statements about the world that they believe to be true, all of their subsequent actions reflect that high priority belief, and disproof causes major re-evaluation of everything.

When people express opinions, they may not act subsequently in ways that are in accordance with the opinion, and may change the opinion with more or less disruption to the rest of their actions.

I used to like cottage cheese, and don't anymore. This has no major effect on anything except my consumption of cottage cheese. I believe in everyday physics so much that I consider them facts, and would have to restructure everything in my life should gravity re-adjust to being 5% stronger tomorrow.

Re: Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

#54

Post by thrway1e34 »

apetresc wrote: post #15
thrway1e34 wrote: post #11

can someone explain this in plain English? I read the tweets but I don't get it. Thanks.

You very clearly do get it, since you posted it to HN.

no. but I can summarize. it seems (after I read the whole HN thread) that the issue is that many OSS communities are pretty hostile places and the speaker didn't mention that.

Re: Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

#55

Post by AnimalMuppet »

DanBC wrote: post #40
sjcoles wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we're supposed to simply know what other people's past, present, and future experiences may or will be? Wouldn't using indicators like class, race, and gender to make these assumptions be a micro-aggression in and of itself? E: To be clear I am honestly curious. This whole argument gets into a circular reasoning of "oh you should just know you silly cis het male, if I have to tell you it won't make a difference/de…

> we're supposed to simply know what other people's past, Can you tell me how I can reword "be mindful of" to avoid the implication that you need to know anything at all about other people? Because that's not what I wanted to say. What I wanted to say was "being aware of micro-aggressions is a small part of not being a complete cunt".

I don't think the problem is with how you worded it. I think the problem is with what happened at the meeting. How was the presenter supposed to know, before receiving feedback, that someone would consider her words to be "othering"?

Re: Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

#56

Post by RickJWagner »

Astounding. I work for a professional open source company, after many years of working for (not open source) companies.

Open Source is more inclusive, more altruistically driven, and better in every way I can imagine.

I am dumbfounded by the premise of the article. I have no idea what it could mean.

Re: Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

#57

Post by icebraining »

criddell wrote: post #35
binarymax wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't any problem with her advice. There is a problem with the hosts. The suggestion that encouraging contributions to OSS might expose someone to being harmed in some way is absurd. You may as well say nobody should go to the grocery store - there might be a racist hiding in the frozen food section!

I'd like to understand this better. Is the microaggression the implicit assumption that you should be able to handle the potentially negative people you encounter in the OSS community?

I think the microaggression is not explicitly stating that those negative experiences exist while making that broad statement ("contributing to OSS is a good way to get started"), and thereby disregarding/minimizing/ignoring the people who had those experiences, harming them.

Re: Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

#58

Post by icebraining »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #55
DanBC wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we're supposed to simply know what other people's past, Can you tell me how I can reword "be mindful of" to avoid the implication that you need to know anything at all about other people? Because that's not what I wanted to say. What I wanted to say was "being aware of micro-aggressions is a small part of not being a complete cunt".

I don't think the problem is with how you worded it. I think the problem is with what happened at the meeting. How was the presenter supposed to know, before receiving feedback , that someone would consider her words to be "othering"?

But DanBC explicitly said the person admonishing the speaker was wrong, so how are you expecting him to answer that?

Re: Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

#59

Post by criddell »

icebraining wrote: post #57
criddell wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to understand this better. Is the microaggression the implicit assumption that you should be able to handle the potentially negative people you encounter in the OSS community?

I think the microaggression is not explicitly stating that those negative experiences exist while making that broad statement ("contributing to OSS is a good way to get started"), and thereby disregarding/minimizing/ignoring the people who had those experiences, harming them.

Oy. An article or talk where every point includes a disclaimer (or even a YMMV) would be pretty tedious. Katie started her talk saying it was an anecdote and it's too bad that a blanket statement in the preamble isn't good enough.

Re: Contributing to OSS considered “dangerous advice”

#60

Post by icebraining »

criddell wrote: post #59
icebraining wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the microaggression is not explicitly stating that those negative experiences exist while making that broad statement ("contributing to OSS is a good way to get started"), and thereby disregarding/minimizing/ignoring the people who had those experiences, harming them.

Oy. An article or talk where every point includes a disclaimer (or even a YMMV ) would be pretty tedious. Katie started her talk saying it was an anecdote and it's too bad that a blanket statement in the preamble isn't good enough.

Oh, I don't disagree, just passing on what I understood from the tweets :)
Post reply on HN